Would you consider canceling a holiday/family visit if COVID was surging there?

[Muffster]

The idea of flying to visit family and stay with them for a summer holiday is now giving me concern: 1 in 19 people where my family live have COVID, there is a surge going on and it hasn’t peaked yet.

There are very few people masking, case numbers are not accurately reported, people do not have to stay home when positive/unwell so infections continue and the health care system there appears to be under serious strain.

would you fly over and visit now?

What's your evidence that any of these things 'work' to any significant degree against Omicron?
They don't change staff on covid wards daily. Staff use masks that are fit tested while they treat unmasked patients. If masks properly used didn't work, there would be new staff daily on covid wards by your magic unstoppable transmission fantasy.

Anyway what does it matter? Clearly you're happy to get covid-19 and increase your risk of heart failure by 73% and stroke risk by 52%, and to pass it on. The only way to avoid these risks is to not catch it to begin with, or to avoid catching it again. Repeated infections even if mild just piles on the risks which will be a public health issue in the future. Let's hope there are enough HCPs to treat these forthcoming cases that are already baked in. That'll be because fit tested masks do stop transmission.

You haven't actually answered the question.

Saying something is so doesn't make it so.

@IcedPurple so you think they change staff on covid wards every day? That infection control using fit tested masks doesn't work? Which part of evidence that's being practised in every covid ward on this planet are you failing to get?

Well if that's what you think, may I ask have to ever contracted covid-19?

That's not an answer to the question. There is no 'evidence' for me not to get.

But having seen your aggressive and slightly bizarre style of 'argumentation' on previous posts, I'll not bother to engage with you further.

Let me spell it out.
Omicron is prevalent in covid wards everywhere on this planet.
HCPs use fit tested masks to prevent being infected by unmasked covid patients when treating them. That's because the masks stop transmission to only 98% (which is phenomenally higher than vaccines and ventilation), but working in Infectious Diseases has always been for the committed.

What a pleasure it would be for a thuggish tribe obviously proven wrong by the planetary wide covid protocols to disengage. If you caught covid in last year, perhaps look at the ample evidence on the impact on your health risks.

I am not sure though you can compare the measures that are rightly used on Covid wards and say that they are realistic measures to be used in everyday life

Infection control measures used in high risk settings are not transferable to everyday life

Does your magic unstoppable covid transmission tribe trot out the "bizarre" word when you simply don't understand science? Why use the word "evidence" when you don't get it even when it's spelt out in the most basic manner?

How long do you want us all wearing these fit tested masks and more to the point who would pay for them? Covid isn't going anywhere.

On a different note, Why do we have protocols for safe food handling, and for the number of doors between kitchens and bathrooms?. What number of doors between bathroom and kitchen? I have one, am I supposed to have another one?

@Quartz2208 I don't recall saying what everyone should use?

It's a free world, and people make their own choices. It's just completely untrue that fit tested masks cannot stop transmission, despite that being trotted out by the magic unstoppable Omicron transmission tribe.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat nobody wants anyone to wear these. We choose what risks we are prepared to take and to inflict on others. However it's not really acceptable to twist the science and facts and evidence to say that fit tested masks don't work. They do work, and can be useful if you feel you need them.

I think it is somewhat bizarre that anyone would even expect others to pay for their masks. The wearer is the direct beneficiary, and the only appropriate judge of their personal risk appetite and morality regarding transmission,

If anyone wants me to wear a mask they can supply it. Why should I pay for something I don't want to wear?

(Before I'm jumped on I did where a mask when it was mandatory)

@PinkSparklyPussyCat masks are optional in the UK unless entering places that deny entry of unmasked people.

We've got an extension where the toilet has an extra door, because when they built it (90s) they were told they needed two doors between a kitchen and a toilet. Google tells me opinion about the regulations seems more varied these days though, so I don't think it's a huge problem if there isn't according to regulations. I wouldn't worry about it.

Covid going nowhere isn't really a reason to stop doing something if it works. That would be a bit like not bothering with mosquito control measures any more because malaria isn't going anywhere. There might be other reasons not to do something, but 'the disease isn't going anywhere' isn't really a reason - if anything that's a reason to work on refining the non-pharmaceutical measures to be less disruptive and expensive, rather than abandoning them completely. For instance, add in ventilation and you get more benefit from a less highly rated mask. Focus on masks in some settings rather than others and you get more benefit from them. Infections can themselves be expensive - healthcare isn't cheap, sickness reduces productivity, people who don't get sick pay but are too ill to work lose money, some people will avoid going out and spending money when disease rates are high. It's not a black and white thing.

Unless you're a restaurant - I think the rules are more definite about how close toilets can be to restaurant kitchens and the number of doors. www.midsussex.gov.uk/media/1827/provision-of-toilets-in-food-establishments-information-sheet.pdf

R@maryso the vast majority of staff working in covid wards have never worn fit tested masks. Surgical (blue) masks unless AGP or ICU are worn. The requirement to be fit tested came in pretty early- but the masks didn’t. Mask requirement do vary slightly between trusts though

Thanks @starcatfish, I was just curious. I live in a 1930s maisonette with the bathroom coming directly off the kitchen - not ideal but nothing I can do about it. I believe there used to be a second door but that was long gone by the time we moved in. It's a shame as I think there was an airing cupboard between the doors and I'm short of space!

@Scandicheek yes it's less than ideal that fit testing has been hampered by PPE supply issues. My DC still in school are fit tested every time and can refuse clinic if they fail the test. The trusts we attend tend to be large, and blue masks are what patients are offered when entering the building.

I think it is somewhat bizarre that anyone would even expect others to pay for their masks. The wearer is the direct beneficiary, and the only appropriate judge of their personal risk appetite and morality regarding transmission

Super, anyone who chooses can wear a surgical mask, funded by themselves. I don't think anyone would have an issue with this, am I missing something?

I think that was in response to me asking who will be paying for these super duper fit tested masks that we should all be wearing and my comment about if anyone wants me to wear one they can provide it @TheKeatingFive.

What surge are you meaning anyway OP?