Would you consider canceling a holiday/family visit if COVID was surging there?

[Muffster]

The idea of flying to visit family and stay with them for a summer holiday is now giving me concern: 1 in 19 people where my family live have COVID, there is a surge going on and it hasn’t peaked yet.

There are very few people masking, case numbers are not accurately reported, people do not have to stay home when positive/unwell so infections continue and the health care system there appears to be under serious strain.

would you fly over and visit now?

we have already actually crested the peak of this current wave in the UK (ONS stats always reflect the period from a while before) so by end of August your risk may be less....but it's still far far better to travel in summer as once the autumn /winter comes as rates will go up again because of needing to be indoors more. it's going to balance how much you want to see your family this year rather than next and perhaps what vaccines you and your family are eligible for as in this country under 50's are unlikely to be offered any further vaccines for free?

I've just had the new variant and I wasn't ill at all. No temp Just. A cough and snotty nose. Bit tired

BUT

My dd was in bed for 3 days with a temp. She seems fine now

Ds. Cough and snotty but ok. Been up and playing in garden etc

Dad. In bed for 4 days but he is 75

It's a gamble.

My mum and my husband who have previously had covid before did not catch It

I caught it at a theatre show

It kind of depends on your plans while here. If your going to be sightseeing etc you can't really avoid it. No one wears a mask anymore and people are going about there day infected either unknowing or knowing.

I'm glad I've finally had it. Now I feel a bit more free

No, I wouldn't.

That being said, if you are getting on a plane in or out of the UK now, you are consenting to encountering covid on the journey. By all means take responsibility for yourself and wear the best quality mask you can. But if you aren't on board with that risk, no pun intended, maybe you genuinely are better off not doing the trip. It might be quite an expensive way to get yourself used to the reality that this is going nowhere.

Yes I would because connecting with family you haven’t seen in a long time trumps the possibility of you catching a mild illness. I would check your travel insurance covers the cost of changing your return plans should you still be infectious at that point (IF you get it!!) and take sensible precautions while you are here. Covid is going nowhere and what is happening here in UK will eventually be the way all countries will have to go because pursuing zero covid is like asking the tide not to come in

See now it sounds to me more like your govt are gaslighting you tbh. Being scared to ever travel to see your family again etc. It's a risk but it's here to stay unless you want to stay cocooned on your island forever.

I would go - I wouldn't think twice about it.

Yes, we would travel.
CEV husband but, all fully vaccinated and boosted, he had Covid some months ago, felt a bit rough for a few days but recovered quickly. I had symptoms but several negative tests. Again, fully recovered quickly.
Prior to vaccines, we spent 18 months living in fear, with our youngest missing 16 months of college and not seeing our eldest and only grandchild for a year.

Not going to do that anymore.

my parents, elderly but completely fit and healthy, still refuse to see us, so depressing.

I don't think you should come you're clearly extremely worried about it so you will be anxious when travelling and while here.

I'm in France at the mo (but from UK). It also has a surge of cases, no one is wearing masks out and about and I hear nothing from official sources regarding Covid. So in my opinion the UK government is not the only one 'gaslighting' as you put it.

Yes Covid is here. But how long do we curtail our lives to stop catching it? 2 years? 5? 10?

Yes we do not know the long term risks. In my opinion life is full of risks. I think the pandemic has stopped people making rational decisions personally.

We've all had Covid. My DD14 twice. I was the worst and wasn't that bad. Of course some people are extremely unlucky and have a difficult time/ongoing issues etc. but how can we do nothing from now on due to the fear? That's no life to live in my opinion.

I wouldn't go personally. Yes we do have to live with it to a certain degree, but you still need to mindfull and make choices best for you.

I don't think you should come you're clearly extremely worried about it so you will be anxious when travelling and while here.

Mmm I am thinking this too. There's something to be said for meeting yourself where you are. It would be a very long and expensive trip in which to throw yourself in at the deep end. The realisation that covid is everywhere and cannot be controlled can be a long one for some people. By the sound of things it will happen more slowly and perhaps more easily if OP stays at home. Additionally, it sounds like OP and family haven't actually had covid yet and anecdotally this new variant seems to love the previously uninfected.

Otoh you never know what the future holds and any of us could fall down dead tomorrow... it's a difficult one. I know that I myself would go, because I understand that repeated covid infection is inevitable and have accepted this already. But if I were OP, that's a completely different question.

I think you're worrying unnecessarily. The people posting on here about how ill they felt are the minority, most feel a bit off for a few days. If you haven't seen your family for years, when will you see them? You can't carry on like that.

Covid deaths in the UK amount to just over 0.25% of the population.

1 in 19 is nearly 6%. That means 94% of us DON'T have covid... The zero covid policies of New Zealand, Australia, China, etc were never, ever going to work long term with a virus like this. If agree with others, it's your government doing the gaslighting.

Thanks for the replies.
I don’t feel anxiety or fear in my life here, I know how to manage risk and minimize viral load and make decisions during periods of high community transmission Vs lower community transmission. The situation in the UK is different - when we booked this trip, cases were lower and plane mask mandates were in place.

I think there is a big difference in how most people in the UK view “living with COVID” to how we view it.
For us, living with COVID means

• adopting mitigations/protections especially during surges & dialing them back when transmission is lower, taking precautions such as flying with high quality well-fitted masks and not taking them off except to eat and drink and only when the plane is airborne and HEPA filters are running.


• Being aware that COVID can cause multiple reinfections and having it once confers little immunity and that repeated infections are associated with long term cardiovascular and neurological damage even in mild cases.


• Avoiding unnecessary travel and high risk situations eg: not eating indoors, crowded places during periods of high transmission. Instead, choosing meeting and eating outside, WFH, Zoom conferences etc in order to let kids access in-person school & all access medical care at these times.


• Masks on planes, public transport & when sharing air with strangers, regular testing and staying home when infectious.


• Improving ventilation & air filtration, especially in schools.


• Access to vaccines including under 50 boosters offered & treatments

The UK seems to have decided to do none of these things and “living with COVID” UK-style means “living like it’s 2019 and ignoring COVID still being a dangerous virus”

So we look at the risks Vs benefits. The only benefits - and they are big - are seeing our families.

The risks are

• getting infected on the holiday (we don’t know if we will have unpleasant flu/viral symptoms for a few days or longer whilst staying with vulnerable elderly family)


• One or more of us feeling unwell and/or being infectious throughout the 2 week entire trip which includes 2 transatlantic flights (and risks other passengers/crew)


• Triggering long COVID or permanent health damage (I’m already high risk for blood clots & take statins for it & have various autoimmune issues, DH has high blood pressure & lung damage)


• Even if we avoid infection during the stay (definitely possible as we know how to manage daily life during high community transmission) also risk getting infected on the flight back and landing at peak hurricane risk time where we live (early September) and also DS missing the first week (or longer) of KS3

Understanding risk feels like the opposite of living in fear. To me, denial and gambling with risk without understanding consequences is more fearful and ultimately unrealistic. To get to this level of risk and understanding I’ve had to take time to keep up with epidemiologists and public health experts, for two + years and I fully accept that I am accessing educational privilege to do so.

it’s a fucking impossible choice; no way would I visit the UK right now if my and DH family didn’t live there. I’m quite angry at the lack of transparency about the disabling effects and economic effects, educational, social and health care system impacts of letting a novel pathogen with serious systemic multi-organ sequelae rip through the population without mitigation.
JFC, masks on public transport and flights is easy enough and whilst it doesn’t prevent infections completely it significantly lowers viral load and has population level benefits. It should not be a binary everything/nothing situation. That feels like the worst kind of fearful living; just giving up and letting it slam over and over again. That is not living with COVID.

I think morally we have to come because our parents are old and they have a right to see us and because of the UK attitude they cannot expect to live as long as pre-COVID times,

We will use the most effective N95 + masks possible for both flights and suck it up, and hope we make it back in sufficient good health to get DS back in school and to cope with any necessary hurricane prep during peak storm season - and the likely autumn variant coming.

The virus does not necessarily evolve to be mild; it evolves to be fitter and the more cases circulate, the more chances it gets.

JFC, masks on public transport and flights is easy enough and whilst it doesn’t prevent infections completely it significantly lowers viral load and has population level benefits.

Thing is, we had laws requiring more masking than this not so long ago, and it didn't actually prevent us having an Omicron wave. Indeed, the different constituent countries of the UK provide a useful data comparison here, because England got rid of that law before Scotland, and yet the Scottish retention of the rule didn't prevent their Omicron surge either. No population level benefits appear to have accrued to us from it either, or not any that anyone has been able to evidence. Speaking of transparency. It was one thing earlier in the pandemic with less transmissible strains, but Omicron is different.

Anyway, sounds like you have come to a decision, so hopefully this thread has been helpful.

I think it very much depends on how much you want to visit your family and whether you think it's worth the risk.

Covid is high here but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll catch it on a visit. I should think a lot of people here catch it from family or colleagues or school rather than from visiting tourist attractions or restaurants (though of course it is very possible to catch it there).
It's also still perfectly acceptable to wear a facemask if you want to even if others aren't. I do tend to wear a FFP2 facemask on public transport for example.
But it's not worth making yourself miserable about if you don't want to take the chance. If you won't enjoy your visit because you are worried, then delay it until you feel happier about it

Life is too short. The UK did get most people vaccinated. You've had the vaccines - if you are still having to worry about catching Covid, what was the point of the vaccine? It will stop you getting seriously ill if you do come down with Covid so just enjoy your holiday. Surely seeing your parents is worth the risk of coming down with what is a bad cold for most people. And perfectly possible that you won't get it also. I've had 3 holidays this year and not taken any precautions. I've been to parties, gatherings and the theatre and cinema to name but a few. I want to live life normally and am prepared to risk getting Covid to do this. No point shutting yourselves away for an unknown period of time.

It sounds like hour country does a massive amount of scaremongering.
it also sounds like you really don’t want to come and are posting hoping everyone agrees with you.
many posters live in Uk and therefore know what’s what better than you are hearing over there. I would listen to them.
but ultimately if you don’t want to go then don’t…

Only you can decide this OP, because people's attitude to Covid risk is extremely personal and varied. We've just had family over from the US, neither of whom had previously had Covid (although MIL had a bad cold and cough two weeks before coming and didn't test, so quite possibly she HAD had it). SIL got 'a cold' while she was here. None of the rest of us caught it, despite spending all day every day with her. We've all had Covid before, so interpret that as you will.

The fact is that you will quite possibly catch it if you come over. You'll be stuck in a metal tube with about 300 other people for 11 hours, you'll be spending hours in busy, crowded airports, shops and attractions here in the UK are also busy and crowded. Then you'll have to do that 11-hour flight again in a different metal tube with 300 different people. The choice is yours.

oh, I knew the gaslighting and denial is very pervasive in the UK. I don’t blame people for it - it’s been actively encouraged. And I spent a few weeks watching MN threads before posting to get an idea of how people in the UK are “living with COVID”.

as I said, when we booked, cases were down and mask mandates in place on flights.

my information comes from following epidemiologists and public health experts, not politicians, here or in the UK
here is a decent list twitter.com/i/lists/1447176236665540612

luckily in my current country of residence the political leaders are receptive to epidemiologist and public health advice

as a result of following it, we have one of the highest vaccination rates in the world and our health care system never once came close to being under severe strain, even during times of high community transmission. Our ambulances arrive on time to this day.

I love my family and my friends in the UK and I am prepared to take serious risks to see them this year but at least I’m doing so clear-eyed and not living in denial, pretending COVID is just a cold and there are no consequences to catching it repeatedly. That isn’t true now and never was.

I remain angry that the UK is led by the current government and aghast at the lives lost, the disabilities and economic impacts caused by the current amoral policies and despairing at the damage done to the NHS and public health. It didn’t have to be this bad but here we are.

Stay at home.

As said before, thank you for taking the time to respond. I appreciate it and hope you and your loved ones stay well and enjoy the summer safely.

Yes I would go. Most of us have some sort of immunity now, I'm hearing lots more about people not catching it off family members when before it would rip through a whole household, even if you are exposed you are not as likely to get ill with it now.

I had it in March for the 2nd time and didn't even know I had it (came up on hospital swab) so there's even a possibility you could catch and not even know.

I'm pretty sick of Covid ruining things so would make a huge effort to just get on with life and do what you want when you want and enjoy life.

No insurance companies will insure against cancelling for Covid reasons now as all restrictions have been lifted.

Hope you have a lovely time if you decide to go.

Well after two and a half years of not visiting the uk and not seeing my 90 year old nan since Jan 2020 there was no way we were not coming back to visit. We're all jabbed my family is jabbed and it just wasn't an option not to come back.

I’m sure your families will miss the laugh-a-minute vibe you’d clearly be bringing!

Do you live in New Zealand?