Would you consider canceling a holiday/family visit if COVID was surging there?

[Muffster]

The idea of flying to visit family and stay with them for a summer holiday is now giving me concern: 1 in 19 people where my family live have COVID, there is a surge going on and it hasn’t peaked yet.

There are very few people masking, case numbers are not accurately reported, people do not have to stay home when positive/unwell so infections continue and the health care system there appears to be under serious strain.

would you fly over and visit now?

And how long are your country going to continue masking children? Sod that I'd rather be in the UK

And even given what I've said above, I'd still come to visit family.

Ah, our old friend sensible and simple mitigations. Easy peasy when it's not you bearing the downside of them, still beloved of many even after it became clear they didn't prevent uncontrolled Omicron waves.

Based upon the above, OP I would stay at home.

I'd then remove myself from all Covid news/scaremongering/propaganda for a period of at least 2 years - then fly.

It’s terrifying to read people elsewhere are still so deranged about this, have they not realised how much they are damaging their children? Mental health? Development and education, life experience and the risks of their children developing serious anxiety disorders and OCDs and GAD etc etx

Its utter utter madness, poor kids

Having read your updates I see you actually were not asking for peoples opinions but rather coming from a place of fear and scaremongering. It would seem you've little understanding of life in a large country. British overseas territories, in comparison, are tiny. So closed borders etc worked well for small isolated populations and you're still in that mindset.

But thanks for the lectures and the suggestions that we don't understand.

Maybe most of us have had Covid and know many many people who have so we can see more clearly the risks. And I know people who have been hospitalised, impacted long term and died. Yes I'm travelling and living my life. And seeing family. And rejoicing that my children have some sort of normality.

So as I said. Stay home.

I live in Singapore and flew to the UK at Easter for similar reasons to you, and with similar restrictions still in place. I was positive three says later, so most likely infected on the plane or as soon as I landed. I was iller than I've ever been for five days, still ill, like with a heavy cold, for a further 10, and am still coughing today. No underlying conditions, mid 30s. I'm still glad I went and got to see family after so long without doing so, but it cost me a lot of time off work waiting to be able to fly, and therefore money, extra transport and accommodation costs, and testing costs. KLM let me change my flight for free as many times as i needed thank goodness, but most airlines aren't doing that now. So ignoring all the qualms about masks and attitudes with in the UK (which I more or less agree with you on), then you'll have to decide if seeing family is worth the potential cost of it all going wrong. Make sure you have good insurance which covers health implications and financial implications of a covid infection to any of you during your stay, and try to plan a trip which minimises crowds and events but maximises family time outside.

@CinnamonSwirlGirl you know nothing, you obviously weren't even here. The bit that was badly managed was the care homes. Where are these millions in the UK that are still dying of COVID? If you knew about how the UK records it's stats then you would know that if you died of a heart attack or terminal cancer but you tested positive at the same time, then your death would be in the statistics of people who died from COVID even if it was not the main cause. You do realise that about 10000 people on average die of flu in the UK a year too? This was obviously worse in the first instance than that, but since about the time you sidled back to the UK, the vaccines have helped enormously. Restrictions (self imposed or mandated by schools and leisure places) were in place last Xmas, things getting cancelled left right and centre because of COVID...or have you been hiding away and so think that is normal life? Schools/public transport didn't run without restrictions until about march/april this year.
I have CEV family members and the negative effect of the fear even after the vaccines has had a massively detrimental effect, too afraid to go out, too afraid to do anything, that is not living. Eventually one (after 2 years of not catching it) got it, got the special tablet that is now available to reduce the impact and guess what, the fear of it was far worse than the reality.

This is simply one of those decisions that is personal - based on how you see Covid and the risks attached to it (I assume you have managed to avoid it so far @Muffster

If you dont feel happy with it - then simply dont come. But dont judge others if they see the risk differently.

But I think you need to work out when you will be happy to visit the UK/US/Mainland Europe

I also assume you are Caribbean based?

The misinformation and ignorance of the British public is unbelievable- most other countries in the world are worrying about the next wave and we’re all licking each other’s faces and singing rule Britannia because we know best.

OP I understand your fears and if you’re clinically vulnerable then I probably would put off the trip for a wee while to see if things calm down. If you’re not then it’s just as much a risk as having tourists to your island there’s no way of telling if you’re with someone who has it but I do understand your fears of coming to an island that barely bothers
testing at the sign of symptoms. You can take precautions which on the whole do work as long as everyone else takes them too. The reason the newer variants spread isn’t because it evades masks or can propel itself across an empty room of socially distanced people, it’s because the public got precaution weary and more or less gave up on trying to look out for others. Like you said British exceptionalism.

if you think this is your last opportunity to see elderly relatives and you’re fit and well generally then it’s a no brainer.

Life does have to go on but we can mitigate risks

The misinformation and ignorance of the British public is unbelievable- most other countries in the world are worrying about the next wave and we’re all licking each other’s faces and singing rule Britannia because we know best.

This is not a sensible take.

Cases have now peaked in the uk so come august if will be better

most of us have had it at least once now so yes we are all a bit more relaxed

do you have to test negative on a pcr to get home again? That might worry me a bit If you have jobs /school you have to get back to

I am going Cayman Islands. Mask crazy there still.

But all of that is incorrect @Hdhabvdhhebsb . I don’t know whether you genuinely believe what you’re saying or are deliberately being obtuse.

• I never said we still have “millions” of deaths. But the U.K. is still seeing about 100 deaths a week FROM Covid. Personally I’m more concerned with the long term effects of Covid (organ damage including lung damage, respiratory problems, brain shrinkage etc.). I live a full life and don’t want to have to cope with things like long lasting brain fog. I also owe it to my kids to protect them as best I can. Yes, we will inevitably get it. But I’m not going to willingly sign my kids up to infection after infection just so I can go to the pub without a mask on.
• Doctors have repeatedly explained that they can’t just put anything on a death certificate and only the deaths where Covid was a key factor in that person’s death were included in the stats (they need to explicitly list the immediate cause, then separately other factors WHICH LEAD TO the immediate cause, then separately make it clear other factors which DID NOT lead to the immediate cause). It’s offensive to suggest doctors were just throwing about Covid as the cause when it had nothing to do with the deaths. Also, in many ways the U.K. approach catches fewer of the death by Covid cases because it’s only within 28 days of a positive test, not 60 like some places. There’s also the problem of people having to have their treatment delayed because they’ve contracted Covid, so (sometimes life saving) treatment needs to be delayed. I have first hand experience of this.
• There were no restrictions in place at Christmas. No limits on numbers, no mandatory face masks, nothing. Some of the more sensible schools CHOSE to cancel events, but nothing was ever mandatory. I went to several Christmas parties where I was literally the only person in a crammed pub with a face mask on (which of course people like you would laugh at). Similarly, I took my kids to several parties just as Omicron was hitting. No masks to be seen & laughed at for asking to keep a door open to improve ventilation. Funnily enough, a large number of the children caught Omicron. One was really really poorly. But the parents plastered all over Facebook about how “We’ve done everything but Covid caught us”. Lots of the same kids came down with Covid AGAIN in March. Again, some really poorly. A lot have needed time off school to recover. Why not just be a bit more cautious in the most simple of ways? (E.g. doors open at parties, support schools installing HEPA filters filters). So again, I don’t understand people on this thread saying we stuck to “restrictions” and still had a Covid wave. There were no bloody mitigations at all.
• I’ve caught the train several times since being back. A year ago maybe 1 in 8-10 wore masks. Now it’s 1 on a whole train. Similarly at schools, there were a few teachers who wore masks under their chins at pickup/drop off for a few weeks. Completely useless and can’t be considered a “restriction”.
• Instead of criticising friends / family who are CEV and (understandably) being cautious, have you thought once about how YOU could help them? For the love of God just do a test and offer to meet them outside for a coffee. Or offer to drive them to a medical appointment so they don’t need to risk public transport. Suck up whatever hardship you feel it is and just test first and wear a mask when you take them. Their behaviour isn’t harming you in any way, but your behaviour could make them extremely poorly.

There were no restrictions in place at Christmas. No limits on numbers, no mandatory face masks, nothing.

2021? That's simply not true. At that point, each constituent country in the UK still had isolation laws. The legal obligation to isolate when testing positive for an illness is a restriction, there's no getting round that.

England and Scotland both had mask laws too, they were reintroduced on 10th December 2021 in England. I'm not sure about Wales and Northern Ireland and can't be arsed to look it up, but either way that's the large majority of the UK.

There were restrictions at Christmas. You still had to isolate for 10 days if you had contact with a positive case in Scotland as dh had covid just after Christmas and the rest of us had to isolate over new year. We still had masks too.

I went to two massive Christmas parties in December 2021 (only one wearing a mask), three kids parties over end of December and start of Jan (only one wearing a mask), went to two gigs at Leeds Arena in December (maybe 1 in 25 wore a mask at those. Possibly less. I asked the bouncers about Covid passes and they said they weren’t bothered). THOSE ARE NOT RESTRICTIONS. There were no consequences whatsoever if people didn’t mask or have Covid passes or whatever. You can’t possibly think we were restricted in December 2021 in any meaningful way or in a way that other countries would consider “restricted”??

Agree @CinnamonSwirlGirl there certainly were restrictions over Christmas - www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-confirms-move-to-plan-b-in-england

We went into Plan B on the 8th December and we came out of it January 27th/

Quite right. Wishing a problem away because you don’t like it is naïve at best and dangerous at worst.

There certainly were restrictions last Christmas, we missed Christmas as one of my kids caught covid and we all isolated as per the rules. That’s in England.

There is no published data for people dying from covid, it is people who die within 28 days of a positive test. They may die with covid but not all are dying from it, they may be fully recovered then run over by a bus but they are included in the figures.

OP don’t come, you clearly don’t want to. It’s interesting you won’t state your country but actively criticise the UK. You’re clearly on a tiny (likely Caribbean) island so can hardly compare the strategies the government have taken. I’d rather enjoy my life and risk covid than sit in the house any longer. Protect yourself if you wish but don’t expect the rest of the world to sit in so you can enjoy a holiday.

We also weirdly @CinnamonSwirlGirl had some of the strictest testing requirements to enter the country - I should know I went to the US over CHristmas and the testing/forms to get back in was far harder than to get into the US!

When in DEcember is also a good question - the first two weeks were very different to the last two weeks as Omicron hit!

Oh and my sister ended up with covid just before Christmas and we had to do an emergency Christmas food shop for her as she was due to go to my mum's for Christmas day so had no food in as she and her family had to isolate

The legal requirement to isolate after a positive covid test is a restriction and there is no way to sanely deny that. It's interesting that you leave it out.

As for the rest, trying to come up with some nebulous idea of what other countries would consider a restriction is stupid and pointless, there being a couple of hundred other countries in the world and nobody being qualified to speak for all of them. If you mean mask wearing laws weren't being consistently observed or enforced to the extent that you would like, say that, but still don't pretend that we didn't have any restrictions.

I would not worry in the slightest

Wishing a problem away because you don’t like it is naïve at best and dangerous at worst.

but @Technophobic that has to be balanced against being realistic that the restrictions and precautions we put in place only have a certain effect on Covid - an effect that each time it mutates to a new variant seem to be less effective as it becomes more infectious

It is hard to believe that 2 years has passed and we are still having the same arguments that were there in the beginning and the same polarised view points