So what are the rules now?

[honeybooboo33]

It's so confusing. Workplaces telling staff to go in even if they're positive. Testing no longer free or mandatory. So what do you actually do if you suspect you have it? I suppose a lot of it comes down to moral obligation rather than 'rules'.

Dh tested positive earlier this week. Was unwell for a day or two but it picking up again now. I have headache and hay fever symptoms but am not unwell in the sense that I can't function, just feel a bit grotty. The heat isn't helping either. Dc have no symptoms and have end of term things at school that they are looking forward to.

I have no tests left in the house (used all my tests up testing us all when dh first tested positive - at which point the rest of the house was negative). My question is am I meant to be buying tests to keep checking us all? It would mean making a special journey and I kind of feel like after all dc have missed out on it would be shit for them to have to skip the last few weeks of school when they're not even unwell. I know that wont go down well but seriously, how many people are walking around with it now that we no longer get free tests? Or even walking around knowing they have it since there's no longer any legal obligation to isolate?

I just wondered what other people are doing at this point I guess...

@broughtitbutneedgone yes I can definitely carry on with life but should I really be meeting up with people, attending hospital appointments, going to baby classes etc? Do I just ignore the possibility that I might have covid?

I'm currently the last one in my family to get Covid. The rules for school were 3 days but we kept my daughter off a bit longer as she was unwell with it.

My husband has a heavy cold and I'm asthmatic and it's gone to my chest and I'm on steroids.

I don't think people should be hiding away completely though. I wouldn't go somewhere like work or a medical appointment where you're in a small room but I'd take my children to school (and make sure I mask up and stand away from everyone else).

This is a long winded way of saying you haven't provided any evidence of your claims. The data you claim to do is entirely absent from your posts.

You still haven't told us which measures in which countries you're even talking about, let alone anything else. All we have so far is an unverified assertion that other countries in Europe aren't doing as badly as us and that rules you haven't deigned to identify are responsible for this. You've had post after post to do more than that, but you have yet to achieve it.

Good luck getting any sense out of her @CornishYarg!

I don’t know about other countries but I have been to France and Greece in the last 6 weeks. I expected masks and Covid passes in France but nothing , hardly saw a mask we were in a large city but saw less masks than we do here in our small market town. Apparently they are still compulsory on public transport there but the trams probably had less than 20% masked. We were never asked for Covid passes.

Greece; more masks , everyone in the airport was wearing one and the car hire pickup , much less out in the country . Lots of scary rules in the villa about Covid but most seemed to be ignored. By the time we came home there seemed to be fewer masks in the airport.

we were at a large wedding in France, generally people seemed very dismissive of Covid , basically said they wouldn’t test and no one bothers, certainly no restraint about kissing! This surprised me as people living in France on here had indicated that things were stricter . Our experience in the wider city, we were there 5 days, seemed to bear out the wedding experience out, it was buzzing no social distancing etc

Babdoc

I find the 5 days isolation rather arbitrary. I was still testing strongly positive at ten days last week, with my second attack of acute Covid on top of my long Covid. I isolated for 14 days in the end.

Presumably it was either because you felt you unwell or because you could afford to that you isolated for 14 days.
I thought (but could be wrong - I have a feeling you have a medical background and may know different) that 5 days was a balance between majority of people not being contagious after 5 days, (iirc you are more contagious before symptoms manifest) and 5 days being a manageable period of time that people would isolate for?
Reality is, a lot of people could not afford to isolate (potentially multiple times) for 10-14 days especially if they felt well enough to work. And businesses might also struggle with people being off for 10-14 days at a time. Also a year or so ago they were saying don't test with lfts for 3 months after infection as you may still be showing positive, suggesting you may still show positive weeks afterwards but presumably not contagious.
3 of our family had it at New Year and isolated for 10 days as per the rules at the time, but we would have felt OK to go to work, or even go out for a walk, on day 7 or 8.

It's so confusing. It's clearly down to the individual to make their own choice. I'm going to assume that I have covid. I've developed a chesty cough along with headache, congestion and very sore eyes. My sense of smell is also going but that could be due to blocked nose.

If dh hadn't had confirmed covid I probably could have put it down to hay fever but knowing it's in the house and then getting these symptoms...well i think its reasonable to assume i have it. I think it's counter productive to trawl around shops and chemists looking for tests so I'm just going to be sensible without isolating totally. I have cancelled baby classes for this week but will continue to walk to school with the kids and attend outdoor things while keeping my distance.

The one thing I am torn on is my daughters outpatients hospital appointment next week. I could wear a mask and hopefully by then I'll be over the contagious period. It's an important appointment that we've waited a while for.

@honeybooboo33 For an OP appointment you are still expected to wear a surgical grade mask.

@CornishYarg the country deaths data at Worldometers is an easy start. Death patterns track country policies (as to be expected), especially pre-vaccines. If we look at the 2022 patterns, i.e. after countries have been heavily vaccinated, and especially post-isolation, you'll see the wave pattern for the UK vs other patterns, the latter not as well formed and repetitive over 3 monthly blocks. Generally the UK's death patterns are very straightforward, and Sage are very clear on their policy thinking. Our cultural resistance to behavioural measures makes for relatively easy policy making in that sense. Culturally we tend towards potions and magic pills, rather than lifestyle changes. That's obvious from the profile of most NHS clients regardless of covid.

@ApplesandBunions looks like I'm living rent-free in your head, despite your "knowing" I'm wrong? Don't you have somewhere to spread your infections today? In case you haven't worked it out yet, your opinions are worth no more to me than mine are to you.

In your position I would try and test, and if you really can't get any, assume it is covid. I have it at the moment, and it's so crap getting it again. Appointments at hospital and dentists are being missed, but I couldn't in good conscience go and spread it around there (and then have a knock on effect of others no doubt needing their appointments cancelling). It's shit. The guidance is crap. Tests are expensive so people aren't testing, and it's just spreading everywhere. Not looking forward to winter!
I hope you feel better soon OP

@ApplesandBunions looks like I'm living rent-free in your head, despite your "knowing" I'm wrong? Don't you have somewhere to spread your infections today? In case you haven't worked it out yet, your opinions are worth no more to me than mine are to you.

Oh look, you're trying to play the woman instead of the ball @maryso . What a shock. Don't worry though, it's not worked.

You still haven't backed up any of your claims. Tell us which policies in which countries have done what you say they have and tell us what the proof is, or continue to be a bullshitter and be identified as such. Those are your choices.

@ApplesandBunions since it's clear to the world who's what, why aren't you happy? I'm perfectly happy. If you were really interested in facts, you'd put some effort into that, instead of your repeated needy attention seeking. I've indulged you quite enough already, while nobody else has, so you'll have to address your needs somewhere else. Those are your choices.

Blimey, you actually think you speak for the world don't you? It's a genuine belief that everyone agrees with you, everyone just knows and that anyone daring to question your unevidenced assumptions has got to be acting in bad faith. It says a lot about public messaging in the first couple of years that this is still happening now.

Anyhow, still no proof.

@ApplesandBunions it's so deliciously dysfunctional how you project your own neediness onto others! After all you're the one who's adamant that you're right in everyone's eyes, and you've projected that onto me.

Anyway what on earth does public messaging have to do with me? There's plenty of evidence where you're at and coming from. However proof is more rigorous and in the case of a live situation needs complex counterfactuals, which is why your repeated loose use of that word is more evidence your questions are all about your neediness and absolutely not a discussion. Sorry, I really should not indulge you let you get on, but diagnosis is fascinating stuff.

You're the one who's making assertions you can't back up. As with this post once again. For all the long words you've thrown in there, you still haven't given us any proof that the rules you advocate for in the UK are doing what you say they are elsewhere. You haven't even identified one country whose rules you could tell us about.

Even now, iIf it were that clear, you'd have been able to provide some evidence in much less time than you've used telling us how obvious it is. Yet you haven't. Funny that.

@ApplesandBunions projection, projection, projection!

You're the one in search of rules, and I'm the only one to indulge your attention-seeking. "Since February the rules are you're on your own" and our death trajectory is evidence of this: yet still you're unable to look up death numbers even years into the pandemic, not even review the Worldometers data. You've manufactured your own entertainment and can't quite let go, I get that, so well done! Now that's diagnosed, your broken record of fabricated "rules" you've projected onto me is totally a bore. Incidentally, your demands for "proof" of what you've fabricated (yet still unable to actually look at the data because you'd have to discuss the "proof") are also getting deranged in your latest post, but that's to be expected given your situation.

Your questions assume that the virus has somehow mutated into Omicron without being helped by our not sharing vaccines with the world, without our comfortably spreading it because we can't be bothered to use masks properly.

@maryso how would sharing vaccines have stopped mutations when the vaccine doesn't stop spread?
You crack on wearing your mask to walk from a restaurant table to the toilet and convince yourself you're stopping spread though 👏🏻 well done.

Apologies OP for the derail...

I hope you're on the mend.

@secretllama why, thank you!
I'll certainly crack on, because not being ill means I can continue to see patients who have to be properly masked or can choose to go elsewhere.

You didn't answer my question about mutations/vaccines. I'm genuinely curious because the fact that sharing vaccines prevented new waves was thrown around a lot on here but the vaccines dont stop spread so how can it stop mutations?

Also, that's great youve not been ill and can see patients. Keep on wearing that mask as I said above if it makes you feel better/superior.

@secretllama so the real question is do you think that not intervening, even if in an incomplete manner as vaccines are, and to a lesser extent cures, would make no difference to mutation rates? Likewise does living with covid mean the same as living before covid?

I wear a mask because it prevents me from getting ill. My feelings are not involved, however yours seem to be. It helps to not feel worse/inferior when someone does something you don't, that's called tolerance.

You can't answer my original question clearly.

Of course my feelings are involved when it comes to mask wearing... You're not clever for pointing that out. The thought of them being the norm in society makes me feel depressed quite frankly so I'm ecstatic they're gone. So are most people as it's clear when you're out in public. I live in Scotland where our rates were higher despite us having masks for much longer so I'll not be convinced they prevented spread.

@secretllama I think that the answers to your questions have been repeated by the WHO and Sage and today in the news by all the specialists. Interventions have been and continue to be the only way we adapt to the disease. As for "clear", there is no magic bullet or potion or vaccine, and everyone is racing against the variants. You can't provide any better alternative, and asking for the magic bullet is human but sadly won't get us anywhere. Everyone is racing and doing their very best to find ways to adapt, almost at the expense of other research on other killers.

You presumptuously attributed feelings that I do not have. I pointed that out, how does that make me "clever"? A few years ago I would actively not have worn anything on my face outside of a necessary procedure. I get why people don't like them, because I probably didn't like them more than most people. Like all my colleagues, I now see it as an invaluable prop to allow me to function effectively. When you're drowning, even an unsavoury device is valued. Mask wearing has to be done properly. They are a respiratory filter, not something you slide your breath out via the gaps. I have every respect for those who are exempt who are meticulous about distancing. They do what they're able to. I don't see the point of nostril/chin straps.

I have stopped testing

OP could you see if anyone has a spare test locally?

You said that as a result of the rule changes made in February, we are now peaking at another wave. You attributed causation. Pointing out that we have a wave is not evidence of this, and the worldometers data isn't either. Which isn't their fault, because that's not what the worldometer does. It's yours.

And once again, it's not up to other people to provide proof of your claims. It's yours and only yours. You still haven't. Where is your evidence that the changes to the rules in England in February are what has led to our wave now?