Have people's opinions changed?

[MassiveOverthinker]

Just wondering really, if the last few months have changed people's opinion on how we managed covid in this country.

Anyone wondering if maybe fewer restrictions would've been better and if more draconian ones (often called for) were unnecessary. Anyone wondering if we needed to close schools, swab and isolate our kids, test and trace etc etc.

Or do people generally feel we did what was necessary at the time and are only okayish now because of weaker variants and higher vaccination levels?

Anyone feel less angry at the rule breakers, those who don't want to be vaccinated etc?

If it all happened again, do you think your response to restrictions would be the same, or would you be a bit more inclined to think "sod that for a laugh".

(Asking for a friend).

Apologies everyone, especially to Innocenta. I can see that a post has been deleted where I have implied something tongue in cheek, which are against MN guidelines.

@Everanewbie Challenging your ableist posts isn't 'crying' about anything.

The beauty of thoughts is that they are private. You may be having any number of ableist, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, (etc), thoughts on any given day, and far be it from me or anyone else to claim perfect access to what is passing through your mind-!

But when you choose to share those thoughts in a public space, they become fair game for censure. If your hate stays in your own head, then nobody can stop you, can they?

This reminds me of threads earlier in the pandemic - interesting discussions completely taken over by the me-railing of one or two specific posters. It's a shame.

@HesterShaw1 I'm not that invested in which things you're an anti of. Most people on here with your sentiments are anti both masks and vaccines. If you're genuinely not an antivaxxer, then sure, I was wrong - but considering how many people claim not to be antivaxxers while still spreading antivaxxer rhetoric, you'll have to bear with my ongoing doubts. I could be wrong, though. It is not a foremost concern of mine to retain detailed memories of the precise affiliations of Covid deniers on this board.

Yes, inconvenient for you when someone who disagrees won't shut up in the face of your bullying. If the ableist posts won't do it, what will-?! /s

Innocenta, I think we have a very different definition of hate. I disagree with the necessity to wear a mask. My feeling towards the people that do is not hate, but I am sorry that they have been scared in to it, and that they have been sold a placebo.

I am sad that COVID has robbed people of precious years, but I am more sad about the years the reaction of covid has stolen from all of us, particularly the children who were at crucial stages of their development. I am sad that people are scared enough to wear a mask in their own car and in quiet outdoor spaces, and that our collective risk tolerance has been completely skewed.

@Everanewbie You are not a doctor. You are writing multiple posts attacking CEV people who are covered by the Equality Act, claiming that we are scared and doing something stupid, the equivalent to homeopathy. In fact, we are following relevant and personalised medical advice.

It is utterly irresponsible and deeply wrong of you to spread misinformation in this way and to try to increase hate and mistrust towards those who are already vulnerable in many ways.

You are not a doctor. It is wrong for you to imply that any judgments you make on this topic are pertinent or valid.

If you can genuinely quote where I have bullied you, or where I have been ableist (not how you feel about a comment, but one which is objectively so), I would be interested to read.

On the other hand you have thrown insults around with abandon.

We can all "feel" certain ways about posts, but that doesn't make them fact. There have been times when I've been upset about what someone has said on MN - when I was posting on the Elderly Parents board, for example. And another time on a discussion about adoption and infertility. My being upset about it didn't make any difference to the discussion - it continued, I said my piece, then left the thread.

I'm sorry you are CEV. But it is not just the CEV that Covid has affected adversely. As time goes by, this is more and more obvious, and this is why this thread was started.

And disagreeing with something, and saying so, is not automatically "hate".

@HesterShaw1 I didn't mean to imply that you exclusively were being a bully, so I apologise for that implication. I am referring to the overall approach whereby multiple Covid deniers gang up on anyone who doesn't 'toe the party line' (of being anti lockdowns, anti masks, etc). I've observed this in a few threads now and it's certainly present in this one. You have been involved in that, and I've received just as many insults as I've given/implied, with the addition of many of the comments aimed at me being tinged with ableism.

However, it was poorly worded of me to suggest that you as an individual were bullying me. Not what I meant, sorry.

Also, @HesterShaw1 - I agree, being upset doesn't make something 'hate'. I too have often been upset by things on MN, have often disagreed, etc, and just not engaged. In practice I rarely consider upsetting posts to meet the threshold of 'hate'.

Can you at least try to consider that maybe these ones do?

Yes. I disagree with that medical advice. I think people are wrong to follow it, and I think masks make people look silly. I am not a doctor. Like i said, I have a husband and several friends (hard for you to believe about me, maybe ;-)) across several specialties. They all say something similar in private but would not say so to patients as it is so litigious out there. My belief is that yours, and many other Doctors are quoting the accepted orthodoxy with regard to defensive practice and fear of going against the grain. My comments are not advice, but my contribution to an anonymous chat forum based on my opinion.

Look, you carry on with your masks, I'll carry on thinking they are unnecessary and daft. I have a few masks in the bottom drawer for when I go to the hospital and fly, but I really shouldn't need them. They should take the natural next step to the bin. We both know that a sizeable minority of people will wear them forever now, but the majority of people discarded them at the earliest opportunity, including all of the CEV people that I know, which is quite a few, unfortunately.

I have not read the equality act, but I'm not sure there is a clause suggesting that people with conditions covered by the act are immune to criticism and the logic of their actions must never be called into question on MN. Please stop calling me ableist using the word hate. They are quite defamatory terms. I have a thick skin, but you shouldn't throw labels like that around without pretty good grounds and certainly not generic criticisms.

@Everanewbie You are literally making ableist hate posts on a forum. That's what you're doing. I'm 100% okay with being criticised and having a civil discussion with people who disagree, but that is not what you're doing, and you know that perfectly well.

The Equality Act defines protected characteristics and one of those is disability. You are targeting CEV people with your posts. You are repeatedly posting misinformation and making a misleading appeal to authority that cannot be verified in any way. CEV people can potentially be misled by your posts to their own severe detriment.

And your motivation for doing this is that you see us as weak and scared. You have said this! You yourself have expressed your hateful views about us. This is ableism.

I think this thread shows how mental health has been affected by all this, and it’s really sad.

Oh, I just saw this, the latest study out shows that none of the NPIs, such as lockdown, made any difference. Might be reassuring.

Not weak, but scared. And misinformed.

I haven't seen anything which is "Covid denying" 😳

Absolutely.

whereby multiple Covid deniers

I'm not seeing anyone deny covid, much less multiple posters.

Disagreeing on the efficacy of masks is not covid denying

Problem is, the lockdowns were to stop too many people needing hospital at the same time. So if it happened again, wouldn’t we have to do the same again? You can only allow so many people to get ill as you have hospital space.

I think the lockdowns did untold damage in many, many ways and also prolonged the pandemic overall but my worry is when the hospitals start filling up, what other options are there?

The hospitals filled up anyway didn't they? And there are reports coming out which are stating that lockdowns made no discernible difference, and that due to people's behavioural changes and natural caution, infections peaked before lockdowns were declared. The December wave of Omicron, and the recent one, showed that peaks will ebb and flow anyway, and Sweden showed that if a population is treated like grownups, their outcomes can compare favourably with populations who are treated like naughty children.

Other options than lockdown for hospitals? Not running the NHS on a shoestring might help. How can you have a "world class health service" when services are shredded and staff are leaving in droves?

Problem is, the lockdowns were to stop too many people needing hospital at the same time. So if it happened again, wouldn’t we have to do the same again? You can only allow so many people to get ill as you have hospital space

We are in Year Three of this. It is not down to the general public to keep restricting their lives. We do not solely exist to protect the NHS. And what Partygate looks like to me is they locked us all down in case THEY needed a hospital bed so they could carry on as normal. I wont be complying with any more lockdowns now or in the future Im not here to protect an NHS that does this www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10789291/NHS-hospitals-spent-800-000-building-nearly-740-gender-neutral-toilets-past-four-years.html

I actually think that we locked down because the public demanded it.

Ironically, I think Boris was right on his initial position of no lockdown.

This may shock you to learn, but among those of us who actually are disabled, it isn't exactly groundbreaking that MNHQ doesn't aggressively moderate ableism. Their underreaction is very typical of them, though obviously disappointing for anyone who gives a damn about disabled people's inclusion on the site.