Have people's opinions changed?

[MassiveOverthinker]

Just wondering really, if the last few months have changed people's opinion on how we managed covid in this country.

Anyone wondering if maybe fewer restrictions would've been better and if more draconian ones (often called for) were unnecessary. Anyone wondering if we needed to close schools, swab and isolate our kids, test and trace etc etc.

Or do people generally feel we did what was necessary at the time and are only okayish now because of weaker variants and higher vaccination levels?

Anyone feel less angry at the rule breakers, those who don't want to be vaccinated etc?

If it all happened again, do you think your response to restrictions would be the same, or would you be a bit more inclined to think "sod that for a laugh".

(Asking for a friend).

Innocenta I haven't seen anyone on here - far less GoldenOmber, who's always been one of the more measured posters - "attack" the CEV with "digital hate crimes" or anything else; had they done it would have been deleted, and rightly so

All some of us have done is post views which on't seem to suit, and that's allowed

Innocenta. Hate. Ableist. Really?

I think there area few things you are struggling with here. My position on masks is as follows:

1. Mask efficacy. My conclusion, based on evidence in research papers and the real life Scotland/England comparison is that face coverings in a non-clinical setting have very little, if not, zero effect against a particularly transmissible virus. Even if it did, post vaccine the fatality rate is so low it does not warrant such a radical departure from long accepted norms.
2. My personal belief therefore, is that mask mandates are an abhorrent imposition symptomatic of a government that wants to be seen to be doing something, anything, rather than be accused of doing nothing even if that something is of no positive effect.
3. Therefore, in my opinion, who continue to wear masks now that is voluntary are doing so unnecessarily and are pursuing something that is akin to homeopathy, i.e. not evidence based. And therefore, I think it makes them look silly. I think it. I say so to my close friends and on an anonymous internet forum, I do not deny their agency to make their own decision or act in a rude manner towards them.

I am CV myself, although not CEV. In some ways I can understand the desire for a comfort blanket. But my conclusion is that given the lack of evidence, life is too short to cover your face or to temper your life in any way. I prefer to lean on the evidence backed tools such as vaccines, antivirals and so on.

To label my views as ablest, as hate, or antivax is plane wrong. I am truly sorry that you are CEV and I wish you the most full and comfortable life you can.

@Everanewbie who continue to wear masks now that is voluntary are doing so unnecessarily and are pursuing something that is akin to homeopathy, i.e. not evidence based

Why do you think you know better than their own doctors? That displays an alarming level of arrogance.

Do you customarily advise people to stop their chemotherapy because you don't like the sound of it? Do you advise diabetics to stop taking insulin because you don't understand why they need all those nasty medical treatments?

Maybe you do! I hope you don't.

...Wondering why it is only the CEV as defined in relation to Covid that you're determined to target in this way.

Don't go spoiling it with common sense, Everanewbie

1. No my opinion hasn't changed. I always thought the world had gone collectively crazy. The amount of people that didn't get that rather than it all be over quicker if we locked down we actually prolonged things was crazy.

The amount of people that didn't think that there are downsides to lockdown, downsides that could potentially be more damaging than covid itself was also crazy. Like where did they think the money was coming from for furlough etc? We, our children and our grandchildren (and maybe even great grandchildren) will be paying for decades to come. What about children's social development? That's totally f@cked. And don't trot the children didn't used to go to pre-school line out. They may not have gone to pre-school but they most definitely wouldn't have been shut away from everyone but their immediate families for months at a time. What about the way our immune systems actually work? The reason we on the whole don't get seriously ill from many of the coughs and colds is because we've been constantly exposed. I can't be the only one who has suffered more than ever with the colds I've got in the last year. Plus my hay-fever has gone crazy since lockdown, gp says its because my immune system is going crazy. What about mental health? I literally don't personally know anyone that has died of/with covid. But I do know 2 people that lockdown itself has killed, both parents with young children, one a 23yo who committed suicide a couple of weeks ago, she went downhill during lockdown and then couldnt get the help she needed...because covid

Also, @Everanewbie:

Hate. Ableist. Really?

Yes, really. 'Hate' as in non crime hate incident. You are actively posting misinformation and trying to foment hate against a group of people who have a protected characteristic (disability). It's also just glaringly obvious that CEV people as a group have had a rough time over the pandemic, with particularly harsh restrictions and at times very poor information sharing. One might think that people who are frustrated by the government and by restrictions might have a bit of sympathy...!

But one would, of course, be utterly wrong.

Oh, so it's 'common sense' to claim you know better what medically vulnerable people should do, now? Compared to their own qualified, subspecialist physicians?

What's your medical specialty, @Puzzledandpissedoff ?

Cont.
It doesn't seem to be reported very often (if at all) but each peak in infection was timed in a way that lockdown itself didn't cause the peak. With the first lockdown the peak was around a week before it started (you need to work back from hospital admissions and deaths peaking to see it). Enough people had altered their behaviour enough for it to reduce numbers

Yes because the evidence for wearing masks in non-clinical settings like Asda or for a walk round the park is JUST THE SAME as the evidence for chemo or insulin for diabetics. Identical situations.

Because wearing a fabric mask for a walk round the park is just the same as wearing a FFP3 when I am in a small ambulance with two paramedics. Or in my room in the infusion centre with a nurse.

Yup. Exactly the same.

I'm sure you'd happily go maskless into any situation! Fancy a spot of Ebola nursing...?

Sorry, Innocenta, but I don't really want to respond to your overemotive posts any more. Like others I'm genuinely sorry if you're suffering through being CEV, but just wonder if you wouldn't help yourself better by avoiding forums where a diversity of views is allowed?

Ever heard of defensive medicine? The doctors I know would never diverge from the "company line" and fear a law suit. I can't speak for you doctors, but the ones i know, at least privately, have reached a very different conclusion to yours.

But no, I don't advise people to stop their chemotherapy. 1. They are being treated for a disease that will kill them if left untreated. 2. It is evidence based and is proven time and time again. What I would say is that it would be ridiculous w to amputate and arm because of an ingrowing toenail. Sorry, analogies aren't your thing, i'll explain. There is no evidence to suggest lopping off an arm will cure your ingrowing toenail, and you now have no arm. The cure not only didn't work, it caused irreparable damage to you.

...Wondering why it is only the CEV as defined in relation to Covid that you're determined to target in this way.

Because that is the only disease, of many, that governments and individuals have lost the plot over. But I also object to the removal of 2 for 1 offers and sugar tax to deal with obesity. Anything that imposes on my personal choice on the grounds of being in my best interest.

Now let's get on to selfish.
It's OK to be selfish, it's a normal human trait to want to prioritise ourselves and our families. My priorities are different from yours @Innocenta and that's fine.
I find people wearing masks extremely uncomfortable, I'm autistic and I've been exempt throughout (I did try and wear one but really couldnt). I struggle when talking to someone who is wearing a mask, I find I'm forced to look in their eyes, which is more than just uncomfortable for me (but it's good manners to look at someone when they are talking to you). Plus thanks to my sensory processing issues I can't actually differentiate a single voice if its muffled by a mask. So selfishly I would prefer that no-one wears masks.
Your issues are different and because of them you would prefer people wore them. So we are both selfish in our own way.

And just to clarify, I'm considered CV because of my learning disability I am fully vaxed and boosted. I'm also the parent of a CEV child (who is a serious risk with any cough or cold, with a common having come close to putting him in PICU), who is vaxed.

@Puzzledandpissedoff Why should I be forced off the forums by your (and others') ableist posts? I'm perfectly willing to discuss differences of opinion with those who can do so in a civil and respectful way. It seems most people can't. And I shouldn't have to be silent in the face of ableism any more than homophobia or racism.

You don't have to respond if you prefer not to.

I disagree with your take but I appreciate that you talked through your position thoughtfully and without being intentionally offensive, like a lot of posters. I'm not sure it's possible on this thread to even have a proper discussion, as so many people are posting in an overtly ableist and abusive way, but I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts!

Also, @firef1y - I don't think just having a preference is selfish!

The poster is using sarcasm here Innocenta. The subtext for her comment implies that insulin for diabetes and high grade PPE for ebola has research backing up the practice, however the evidence and the case for wearing a mask in ASDA or the park is extremely poor, i.e. the two situations are very different.

@Everanewbie Do you struggle with your reading?

@KnitPurlKnitPurl lol, of all the many things in my life I can be said to struggle with (including such winners as eating and breathing), reading is verifiably not one of them.

Yes, it is unpleasant when someone calls out the ableism, isn't it?

Ableism. Aye right. I'm out.

@Everanewbie If you genuinely cannot understand why your succession of hate posts would be upsetting to one of the people targeted by them, and so your conclusion is that that person must be Russian...

Well. That is truly mind boggling. I suggest you spend some time reading about the disability rights movement if you think you could get to grips with it, and if you can spare the time from posting further ableist hate on the internet. Education might help you.

Well, maybe North Korea then.

I must admit, I am not the most up to date social justice advocate but unfortunately I do have a fair bit of experience in dealing with ill health, both on my part and through my husband's job.

My objection, fundamentally, is to the thought police, telling me I can't think a thought. Which in this case is that the evidence so far suggests mask wearing is nothing but a comfort blanket and therefore is daft. I've also feel that given the messages that CEV people, and everyone else has been blasted with, its not entirely surprising that they reach for the comfort blanket, but its still wrong. And emotion and crying about -isms doesn't change that.

You're calling me an antivaxxer? Based on what I have said about people's reactions to masks, and an opinion I have about people wearing masks in a fresh breeze or while in a car on their own? (Do you think those are medically rational things to do, by the way?)

Riiiiiiiight.

You have literally no idea what my opinions are regarding vaccinations, or what my vaccination history is, yet you think it's acceptable to publish a conclusion based on something I've said about something else. What is this, a Russian political trial?

You have no idea about my medical history, or whether I have had Covid or not, or how badly. You have no idea if I have vulnerable relatives. I unlike you have not chosen to air my personal circumstances on a discussion forum.

By the way, saying something someone else disagrees with is not a crime. Neither is being an anti vaxxer, come to that.