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Original poster

Have people's opinions changed?

754 replies

MassiveOverthinker · 11/05/2022 12:19

Just wondering really, if the last few months have changed people's opinion on how we managed covid in this country.

Anyone wondering if maybe fewer restrictions would've been better and if more draconian ones (often called for) were unnecessary. Anyone wondering if we needed to close schools, swab and isolate our kids, test and trace etc etc.

Or do people generally feel we did what was necessary at the time and are only okayish now because of weaker variants and higher vaccination levels?

Anyone feel less angry at the rule breakers, those who don't want to be vaccinated etc?

If it all happened again, do you think your response to restrictions would be the same, or would you be a bit more inclined to think "sod that for a laugh".

(Asking for a friend).

OP posts:
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8
Innocenta · 23/05/2022 09:10

@WouldBeGood Nastily attacking people who still wear masks when most of those people are vulnerable, some are CEV, and others are caretakers to vulnerable or CEV people, is a really unpleasant thing to do. I think it qualifies as fomenting hatred. People who still need to wear a mask now are, by definition, having a rougher time than you lot are, since you're all happily fine and have resumed your normal lives. So it would behoove you (plural) not to denigrate those of us who are either at ongoing increased risk or justifiably concerned about passing it to CV / CEV loved ones.

Those who are not in that position should be grateful, and get on with enjoying the freedom they are so lucky to have. Smile

Everanewbie · 23/05/2022 11:18

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 09:10

@WouldBeGood Nastily attacking people who still wear masks when most of those people are vulnerable, some are CEV, and others are caretakers to vulnerable or CEV people, is a really unpleasant thing to do. I think it qualifies as fomenting hatred. People who still need to wear a mask now are, by definition, having a rougher time than you lot are, since you're all happily fine and have resumed your normal lives. So it would behoove you (plural) not to denigrate those of us who are either at ongoing increased risk or justifiably concerned about passing it to CV / CEV loved ones.

Those who are not in that position should be grateful, and get on with enjoying the freedom they are so lucky to have. Smile

I am not sure the poster is guilty of hatred or attacking anyone. The difference here is that on a chat forum we talk about opinions. This poster thinks that masks can trigger a response relating to the worst days of restrictions. I'm not sure that poster wants mask wearers harassed, but is entitled to view them as paranoid. I share that opinion.

As an analogy, I have an unpopular view about tattoos looking trashy, but that's an opinion I hold and i'd share on an anonymous talk forum, but I wouldn't storm up to someone in the street telling them that they're wrong and ruining their job prospects. There's a difference there.

As a rule, no one ever wore masks in this country other than surgeons and dentists, and that was to protect against blood splatters and droplets at a wound sight, not airborne respiratory viruses. The evidence points to a minimal, if any benefit in protecting an individual and a very small reduction of transmission if infected. And that is pre-Omicron, so the any effect is probably even less significant with the emergence of the new variants. The burden of proof is, to me, with the people who want to change hundreds of years of accepted behavior, and I've seen nothing compelling other than hard talk from talking heads to meet that burden.

So I see mask wearers as victims of the fear campaign, and after vaccines and the mild cold variant, i feel sorry for them, whether CEV or not. They're not effective, a vaccine trial would be abandoned on lack of efficacy, and in any case, post-vaccine, its hardly worth protecting from anyway.

That said, I still wouldn't abuse mask wearers in the street.

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 11:24

@Everanewbie It's both ludicrous and hateful to view people wearing masks as paranoid when many of them are still substantially at risk. You appear to struggle with understanding this. I'm not sure how much more clearly I can explain, tbh!

Some people are not as healthy as you. Some people can get very sick, even be at risk of dying, from very minor illnesses (minor when healthy people get them). Covid is more serious than a cold, so if a person who is hospitalised by a cold gets Covid, they are likely to be even more ill.

That being so, it is not paranoid of them to wear masks, or indeed paranoid of their loved ones to wear masks.

Arguing against continued mask wearing by the vulnerable in this way is deeply disturbing and says a lot about you as a person.

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 11:26

@Everanewbie Furthermore, any comparison to something like a tattoo is ludicrous. I don't have nationally renowned doctors telling me I should be shielding because of... tattoos. I can't die from someone else's tattoos. Nor can anyone I care about. It's just silly to compare them.

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 11:28

@Everanewbie and in any case, post-vaccine, its hardly worth protecting from anyway.

Are you a nationally renowned doctor? Please post your CV!

I think it's just possible that those who are advising their CEV patients might have a more in depth understanding of the risk than Random Antivaxxers of Mumsnet.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/05/2022 11:37

Is anyone worried that the media are pushing a fear campaign around monkeypox?

Not worried, but disgusted ... though sadly not surprised

GoldenOmber · 23/05/2022 11:37

Wait, why are you calling her an ‘antivaxxer’ now?

SecretVictoria · 23/05/2022 11:37

Oblomov22 · 12/05/2022 08:07

I resented borders not being closed. Allowing flights in from highly infected countries. I was following the rules, I resented that at the time.

Same here. I couldn’t believe that was still allowed. And that you had to be tested when arriving in to the UK but could undertake hours of travel by public transport to get home, where you then had to isolate 🤔.

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 11:39

GoldenOmber · 23/05/2022 11:37

Wait, why are you calling her an ‘antivaxxer’ now?

Her overall tone is consistent with antivaxxer posting. Antimaskers are very frequently antivaxxers, and most of the weird Covid denial posters on here who are obsessed with downplaying the virus are anti both.

GoldenOmber · 23/05/2022 11:44

Riiiiiight. “She hasn’t actually said anything about the vaccines, but it’s the sort of thing she might have said, based on my in-depth knowledge of the posting habits of a board I keep telling people I’m new to.”

Everanewbie · 23/05/2022 11:50

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 11:28

@Everanewbie and in any case, post-vaccine, its hardly worth protecting from anyway.

Are you a nationally renowned doctor? Please post your CV!

I think it's just possible that those who are advising their CEV patients might have a more in depth understanding of the risk than Random Antivaxxers of Mumsnet.

Some people are not as healthy as you. Some people can get very sick, even be at risk of dying, from very minor illnesses (minor when healthy people get them). Covid is more serious than a cold, so if a person who is hospitalised by a cold gets Covid, they are likely to be even more ill.

True enough, well maybe. Torrential rain is more serious for people on a flood plain and for people without rubber a rubber dingy. But mass obedience to an unproven ritual won't change this. Better to concentrate on things that actually work. Sorry, you're not good with analogies. Let me guess, I'm comparing the weather to covid? Masks are ineffective!!!!! Constantly talking about CEV people doesn't change that, even if it is emotive.

Arguing against continued mask wearing by the vulnerable in this way is deeply disturbing and says a lot about you as a person.

I'm not. I'm arguing that me and the PP have a right to think they're wrong to do so. I'm arguing that they probably shouldn't as they don't work at it looks stupid. Plus it has an effect on people's ability to communicate effectively. 'm not arguing that they should be banned, or that we should be rude to people who make that choice, just as we don't abuse people in eccentric clothes. Just quietly and privately judge.

Furthermore, any comparison to something like a tattoo is ludicrous.

I am trying to illustrate the difference between private thought and anonymous discussion by using an analogy. Not compare tattoos to covid. What a disingenuous comment to make.

Are you a nationally renowned doctor? Please post your CV!

No. But my husband is. His friends and colleagues are. Internationally, not just nationally. We talk. The medical profession is not a talking head from the BMA or a career covidian. I'd happily post his CV, but I'd be in world of pain. Take me at face value here, or don't. Whatever.

I think it's just possible that those who are advising their CEV patients might have a more in depth understanding of the risk than Random Antivaxxers of Mumsnet

I am far from antivax. That is a transparent smear used against anyone questioning the excesses of lockdown. I am the opposite. I believe in the efficacy of vaccines against severe disease. I would suggest it is those who advocate continued restrictions and behaviour changes that are antivax.

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 11:52

GoldenOmber · 23/05/2022 11:44

Riiiiiight. “She hasn’t actually said anything about the vaccines, but it’s the sort of thing she might have said, based on my in-depth knowledge of the posting habits of a board I keep telling people I’m new to.”

I saw plenty of antivaxxers and antimaskers elsewhere on the internet before signing up to Mumsnet. This is not, shockingly (!), the only place where people talk about Covid.

KnitPurlKnitPurl · 23/05/2022 11:56

I am very much an anti-masker.

I have had all my vaccinations, and boosters, and so have all my family members.

It's such a lazy argument to state that anyone who clearly has an issue with the prolonged wearing of face masks - almost 2 years in Scotland - is obviously a Lawrence Fox, Q-Anon or antivax numpty type.

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 11:56

@Everanewbie Masks are effective against pathogens. PPE is effective against pathogens. If you don't 'believe' that to be the case, then there is not much point anyone trying to explain to you, because it's a belief grounded in mythos, not in reality.

I would love to know how you think healthcare professionals survive nursing Ebola patients, though!

You are simply another antimasker sounding off, but unfortunately directing your hate at people who still wear masks (including necessarily and under the direct advice of their own doctors! Yet somehow you think you know better...). The fact that you think this is a morally defensible position is astonishing.

Or would be, if I hadn't seen so much of this stuff throughout the pandemic, and so I know that people like you think disabled and chronically ill people are so worthless you literally wouldn't piss on us if we were on fire!

Everanewbie · 23/05/2022 11:57

Everanewbie · 23/05/2022 11:50

Some people are not as healthy as you. Some people can get very sick, even be at risk of dying, from very minor illnesses (minor when healthy people get them). Covid is more serious than a cold, so if a person who is hospitalised by a cold gets Covid, they are likely to be even more ill.

True enough, well maybe. Torrential rain is more serious for people on a flood plain and for people without rubber a rubber dingy. But mass obedience to an unproven ritual won't change this. Better to concentrate on things that actually work. Sorry, you're not good with analogies. Let me guess, I'm comparing the weather to covid? Masks are ineffective!!!!! Constantly talking about CEV people doesn't change that, even if it is emotive.

Arguing against continued mask wearing by the vulnerable in this way is deeply disturbing and says a lot about you as a person.

I'm not. I'm arguing that me and the PP have a right to think they're wrong to do so. I'm arguing that they probably shouldn't as they don't work at it looks stupid. Plus it has an effect on people's ability to communicate effectively. 'm not arguing that they should be banned, or that we should be rude to people who make that choice, just as we don't abuse people in eccentric clothes. Just quietly and privately judge.

Furthermore, any comparison to something like a tattoo is ludicrous.

I am trying to illustrate the difference between private thought and anonymous discussion by using an analogy. Not compare tattoos to covid. What a disingenuous comment to make.

Are you a nationally renowned doctor? Please post your CV!

No. But my husband is. His friends and colleagues are. Internationally, not just nationally. We talk. The medical profession is not a talking head from the BMA or a career covidian. I'd happily post his CV, but I'd be in world of pain. Take me at face value here, or don't. Whatever.

I think it's just possible that those who are advising their CEV patients might have a more in depth understanding of the risk than Random Antivaxxers of Mumsnet

I am far from antivax. That is a transparent smear used against anyone questioning the excesses of lockdown. I am the opposite. I believe in the efficacy of vaccines against severe disease. I would suggest it is those who advocate continued restrictions and behaviour changes that are antivax.

Show quote history

I'm actually quite annoyed at the antivax suggestion. I received an award for my voluntary work as a vaccine centre steward. Such a lazy smear.

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 11:58

KnitPurlKnitPurl · 23/05/2022 11:56

I am very much an anti-masker.

I have had all my vaccinations, and boosters, and so have all my family members.

It's such a lazy argument to state that anyone who clearly has an issue with the prolonged wearing of face masks - almost 2 years in Scotland - is obviously a Lawrence Fox, Q-Anon or antivax numpty type.

Why would you have an issue with people who are still at risk protecting themselves? That's just twisted.

I had to wear masks semi regularly before Covid. As you lucky healthy people know, they aren't nice to wear. Why not try and work on feeling a bit of gratitude that you aren't in this position?

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 11:59

@Everanewbie People like you, who are actively posting hate directed at the CEV, have only yourselves to blame if you are classed with antivaxxers.

Maybe you should rethink what you're putting out there? You should be aware that some of what you're posting is verging on being a digital hate crime.

GoldenOmber · 23/05/2022 12:00

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 11:52

I saw plenty of antivaxxers and antimaskers elsewhere on the internet before signing up to Mumsnet. This is not, shockingly (!), the only place where people talk about Covid.

Show quote history

Ah I see. So when you talked about the “posters on here”, you did not in fact mean the posters on here.

Anyway you seem to be having a grand old time dialing up the rhetoric, so have at it. It’s a fact well-known by experts that some people will always be unwilling to let covid go because it’s the most exciting thing that’s ever happened to them.

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 12:00

Perhaps more accurately a non crime hate incident.

@MNHQ please be aware of the level of ableism and hate directed at disabled people in this thread, and monitor the thread ongoingly. CEV people are being targeted as a group.

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 12:02

@GoldenOmber Is that your latest hate post directed against the CEV?

KnitPurlKnitPurl · 23/05/2022 12:07

You crack on wearing your masks, Innocenta. No skin off my nose.

What you can't start doing is decrying those of us who choose not to, and spin it as if we're some sort of granny-murdering psychopaths who don't care about anyone or anything. Or who question the "science" which saw Scotland retain compulsory masks for so much longer than England, with no effect on case rates.

GoldenOmber · 23/05/2022 12:08

Has anyone else noticed Jeremy Hunt’s recent pivot to ‘if I’d been in charge we wouldn’t have had lockdowns’? Seems unlikely in his case because he was calling for them, but I think it’s an interesting sign of an opportunist politician seeing which way the wind is blowing on public feeling around lockdown decisions.

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 12:09

KnitPurlKnitPurl · 23/05/2022 12:07

You crack on wearing your masks, Innocenta. No skin off my nose.

What you can't start doing is decrying those of us who choose not to, and spin it as if we're some sort of granny-murdering psychopaths who don't care about anyone or anything. Or who question the "science" which saw Scotland retain compulsory masks for so much longer than England, with no effect on case rates.

What I take issue with is those who are criticising people who need to wear masks. And please don't pretend that isn't happening - it is. Right here in this thread.

I agree that Scotland being so out of step and retaining restrictions for longer was not a good choice. I'm not in favour of all restrictions, all of the time, by any means.

But it's possible to have a moderate view on restrictions and still be absolutely against the kind of ableist takes people are posting in the most recent part of the thread. There is zero justification for targeting CV and CEV mask wearers.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/05/2022 12:11

It’s a fact well-known by experts that some people will always be unwilling to let covid go because it’s the most exciting thing that’s ever happened to them

Sadly I suspect that's true

Strange that simply expressing a view will get you accused of "hate" now - it's a word some seem to fling around a lot - but I guess it's all part and parcel of ramping up the emotive and overexcited rhetoric

Innocenta · 23/05/2022 12:16

@Puzzledandpissedoff what would you call it when people who are wearing masks because they are objectively still at risk, and have been advised to keep shielding / wear masks when exposed to humans, are attacked simply for taking these protective measures...?

You think that's not hateful?