Can someone explain to me New Zealand?

[idontknow54789]

Sorry for the ignorance/naivety here but can someone explain to me the reasonings behind such extreme lockdown measures in NZ? At the beginning of the pandemic they're approach was fully accepted but surely now with vaccines and omnicrom being a 'milder' form of covid they have to start setting sense? Is it about the health system? I understand there's a severe lack of ICU beds but is locking down so much really better for health? Can anyone explain it to me please?

I just find it very strange that they don’t have their hands on powerful antivirals that people can take AT HOME and they’re not promoting things that target early treatment, whatever the severity. Surely that’s the best way to keep people out of hospital and take pressure off their healthcare system no?
Otherwise what have they been doing the past two years?

Are the only two choices to end this thing lockdowns and vaccinations? This two pronged remedy needs a third, early treatment to prevent individuals getting sick enough to need hospital care. The advice is to stay at home until you can’t breathe or get better, which is quite clearly too late.

Hold on someone actually said China is abandoning common sense - what China has done to control COVID is horrific (www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-59969509#:~:text=A%20swift%20Covid%2D19%20lockdown,his%20house%20for%20a%20meal.) is just the tip of an iceberg

Sorry but @Tealightsandd…you keep talking about Long Covid, disability and 1m people as though these are established facts. Apparently we’re all doomed because of these ‘facts’. There’s no doubt that LC is real and those suffering from it are debilitated to some degree. This will all need to be managed and there will be implications, both for society and those individuals. But…

Post-viral syndromes are not new or unique to Covid. You can have prolonged post-viral symptoms for colds, flu, glandular fever etc. For a lot of people the symptoms calm down or resolve in time. The exact nature of LC remains to be seen.

Second and I’m just going to be blunt here. The 2 people I know who are claiming to have LC are no surprise to me. One is, frankly, a shyster and has been told politely to go away by doctors for his very vague symptoms. I’ve no doubt he’ll keep pushing for the diagnosis so he can make full use of his very generous NHS sick pay and leave conditions. Situations like this are a disgrace.
The second person has only just recovered from Covid but is already crying LC and accessing medical care for it, she already has her eye on the LC waiting lists and clinics. Background of health anxiety.

The sooner we get a clear view of what LC actually is and how it manifests, the better. In the meantime, while there are clearly lots of people struggling to get over Covid and some of them may have long-term or even permanent implications, claims like ‘1m disabled’ are a total load of codswallop.

It’ll play out in NZ just as it played out in U.K. and many other countries.
My prediction ( especially if NZ is buzzing as a previous poster said) cases will reach 25-30k per day maybe more. Just like U.K. Testing will be very strained at times but more than U.K. as I understand NZ does batch testing which is fine when there are no cases but pointless when cases are high. There will not be enough Lft’s to go round as I think only 10 million have been ordered compared to the 1.6 billion the U.K. ordered back in 2020 (moonshot project)
Supply chains will come under pressure, truckers etc, a situation similar to our “pingdemic” of summer 2021. Lots of people off work isolating causing problems just like here in U.K.
But life will go on for most and NZ will get through.
MIQ will be dropped as soon as the balance tips that way and the isolation period will drop to 5 days just like here as again the risk balance tips to having people working.
I don’t know if JA will have vaccine passports for everything like France, I think not but I guess it depends what case numbers peak at and If she can hold her nerve.
I actually am a fan of Chris Hipkins and the health minister. I think hipkins in particular understands that high cases are coming whatever they do as he has said a few things that indicate this but he doesn’t want to frighten the horses so to speak. It’s a tricky balance.

Every country seems to count Covid deaths slightly differently. We record as Covid deaths people who have died within 28 days of having tested positive for Covid. You could have asymptomatic Covid, come out of quarantine, fall off a ladder and break your neck and still be counted in the Covid figures.

There are still separate figures based on death certificates which are publicly available for everyone to see. It’s just that they take weeks to be collated and published.

You’re talking about the daily figures (for which is simply not practical wait for weeks on end for)

www.bbc.com/news/60145237

We had a neighbour in his 50s who was terminally ill with lung cancer and expected to live less than a month when he caught Covid and died and was registered as a Covid death.

Death certificates record:

1 “Disease or condition leading directly to death”
2 “Other disease or condition leading to 1”
3 “Other disease or condition leading to 2”
4 “Other conditions contributing to death but not related to the disease or condition causing it”

Are you saying that cancer was not listed in any of these sections on your neighbours death certificate?

“The true death toll is more than 140,000, the ONS says. That number is limited to deaths directly caused by the virus, not those "involving" Covid or people who happened to test positive but died of other causes.”

@samsalmon beautifully said. This constant long covid plea is desperate at this point. Of course some will continue to suffer some ill effects as people always have post viral ailment. It is been used as a way to create even more fear of Covid quite simply. As nasty as Covid can be for a few, the experience of being in a pandemic is creating far more issues than the actual virus. Those issues are convoluted with long covid making the effect far worse.

Also I note with interest that we've not had any information about these world expert cardiologists who've found there are 1 million in the UK disabled by long covid. I understand why people take the ONS headline figure at face value then don't check what it actually means, it's annoying but you can see why they accepted it. A claim of 1 million plus disabled is something else altogether.

@sashagabadon - or anyone else - do you have any predictions as to when the borders will be open to tourists and visitors without a direct connection to NZ? It was to be April 30th and we have bought (refundable) flight tickets for early May to visit family and friends. Are we likely to make it there this summer?

@Quartz2208 it's crazy isn't it? China ffs. It's not like they're that desperately concerned about "saving every life" given their other behaviour towards their population. I genuinely don't understand why they have this big push to zero covid which is clearly absolutely impossible in general anyway and even more so if the rest of the globe isn't adopting it as a policy.

I have a relative working there just now and it's properly insane. And that's them getting the special treatment.

I have no idea @what. I think a clue might be watching what Australia is doing with tourists as their strategy is comparable. Although I get the impression the dynamic between Aus and NZ is similar to the dynamic between England and Scotland. ie. Scotland watches what England does and loudly declares it to be reckless and does the opposite then quietly follows suit a few weeks later

Agree re previous posters about long covid. I have no doubt that serious post-vital syndrome can be a real thing after covid---it happens after glandular fever in some cases, and many other viruses (and bacterial infections. I had dysentery in my 20s and had some health problems for a couple of years afterwards).

However, the criteria for defining LC seems comically broad--people are being swept into the LC box for reporting a slight cough or fatigue in the weeks following covid.

I genuinely don't understand why they have this big push to zero covid which is clearly absolutely impossible in general anyway and even more so if the rest of the globe isn't adopting it as a policy.

It is not about "saving lives" from the CCP's perspective. It's about the fact that they have spent the last 18 months banging on and on about how China's success in crushing covid is a sign of competant governance, in contrast to those ineffective and decadent western countries. Of course, this now means that they risk looking like prats if they do end up unable to check the spread of omicron.

@greenteafiend

I genuinely don't understand why they have this big push to zero covid which is clearly absolutely impossible in general anyway and even more so if the rest of the globe isn't adopting it as a policy.

It is not about "saving lives" from the CCP's perspective. It's about the fact that they have spent the last 18 months banging on and on about how China's success in crushing covid is a sign of competant governance, in contrast to those ineffective and decadent western countries. Of course, this now means that they risk looking like prats if they do end up unable to check the spread of omicron.

Yep!

@greenteafiend that explanation makes perfect sense to me. I'm not quite sure how they're going to off-ramp it but I suppose if they're in charge of what numbers get reported that's not impossible either.

[quote Scianel]@greenteafiend that explanation makes perfect sense to me. I'm not quite sure how they're going to off-ramp it but I suppose if they're in charge of what numbers get reported that's not impossible either.[/quote]
It's not like the Chinese regime have been honest and upfront so far, is it?

twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1487350353179729922

This kind of stuff is all over Twitter now.
As fewer and fewer countries remain covid free, I suppose it was always inevitable that the zero-covid people would eventually go full-on tankie. But it's still disappointing to watch it happening.

@greenteafiend

twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1487350353179729922

This kind of stuff is all over Twitter now.
As fewer and fewer countries remain covid free, I suppose it was always inevitable that the zero-covid people would eventually go full-on tankie. But it's still disappointing to watch it happening.

Let's just enjoy laughing as they embarrass themselves.

As for the Chinese government's offramp--I don't know what they are planning to do exactly, but I believe they are in the process of fast-tracking homemade Chinese mRNA vaccines, with which they will need to rejab the whole 1.4 billion strong population. That is quite a big task, though China did do a commendably fast job of vaccinating everyone with the sino-vaccines the first time round. If they are very lucky, they will manage to get a mRNA vaccine rollout done before the virus start doing a runaround in the population.

However, the last year has shown us that even when you have a very high % of your population jabbed with the best vaccines, you will still have massive exit waves and then have to live with the virus endemically. So some loss of face is inevitable.

China may be the world's second largest economy, but in terms of GDP per capita it's basically only a middle income country and it really does not have a lot of extra spare healthcare capacity lying around. Outside glitzy places like Shanghai where the tourists (used to) go, large swathes of the country are middling-poor. So healthcare systems will be under some really bad pressure, I think, even with omicron and with a vaccinated population.

I'm amused at the comments from posters above suggesting that the timing of letting the virus into China is somehow going to be about "pressure" from outsiders--as though the CCP is going to let the WHO or the States tell it how to govern China? LOL. In any case, the west has no vested interest in moving China away from zero-covid. Once the virus spreads there, it will cause a lot of supply chains to well and truly buckle; western business interests would like to buy as much time as possible to develop workarounds before this happens.

(plus, I personally feel like the CCP is less likely to make a grab for Taiwan or the Senkakus, as long as the population remains so frightened of a non-Chinese person breathing on them that those who do travel overseas from China are literally swathing themselves in plastic hazmat suits. So, win-win).

Great post @samsalmon and totally agree with you - I also know quite a few people with "long covid" who have very decent benefits and are milking them for as much as they are worth.

Anecdotally, our friends in NZ say they know of many people with the minor Omicron symptoms who are reluctant to test because of the insanely long isolation periods. I can understand that, but surely it means case numbers are likely to be much higher than reported?

Nz will get thru this and eventually open up BUT their tourism industry is SHOT for years to come if Jacinda remains as leader. Who in their right mind would book a holiday to NZ for some new variant to emerge while you are there and get stuck with borders closed.!! I feel so sorry to tourism operators there plus the fact that NZ economy depends a lot on tourist dollars to fund it.i mean where is Jacinda getting the money lost from the tourism stream??? I have been to NZ and loved the scenery and people.
Did you see some big budget film project has moved location from there too.it did so well from film project revenues - all decimated.terrible for the people employedin that sector . Awful

@SquirrelG wow pretty rude. Replying here mainly because you 'told' me not to.

@SquirrelG also as you can see we all have 'lives' to lead (reason for replying hours later). Perhaps go pull your head out of your own arse to help you to chill out a bit.

@Wizzbangfizz

Great post *@samsalmon* and totally agree with you - I also know quite a few people with "long covid" who have very decent benefits and are milking them for as much as they are worth.

Out of interest, how many exactly? And which benefits?