Refusing services to unvaccinated. What are your thoughts?

[TheChip]

I'm just curious to hear of people's thoughts on this.
I have currently been refused a service due to being unvaccinated, in the UK. Its not a service that would require close proximity like a hairdresser, but in the same space for a period of time.

My thoughts on it are while I understand and respect people's choices and comfort levels, I do find it hard to grasp when the virus is both passed between those vaccinated or unvaccinated. Even if you throw in the comments about how vaccination reduces transmission, it is still transmissible.

I would have been more than willing to LFT before every contact, and wear a mask. But this wasn't an option. Which I guess is the part I find most difficult to understand. That they would be comfortable and willing to be around those vaccinated, possibly even without testing. Which I'd expect testing to be expected for both vaccinated and unvaccinated for someone who is clearly so uncomfortable.

So yeah, what are your thoughts

@Sherrystrull

"Why have you chosen not be vaccinated? In a bid to 'keep yourself safe?'
Can you not see the irony"

Good question. I fully support people's choice to get vaccinated or not, but struggle with the unvaccinated trying to deny others that same freedom of choice.

But I'd go further than irony, I'd suggest hypocrisy.

[quote Genegenieee]@Sherrystrull

"Why have you chosen not be vaccinated? In a bid to 'keep yourself safe?'
Can you not see the irony"

Good question. I fully support people's choice to get vaccinated or not, but struggle with the unvaccinated trying to deny others that same freedom of choice.

But I'd go further than irony, I'd suggest hypocrisy. [/quote]
I havent seen anybody on the thread trying to deny others freedom of choice?

You're questioning the driving instructors reasons for not allowing unvaccinated people in their car because they don't agree with your opinions. They are allowed to do what they want regarding covid safety just like you are. Why question at all?

@Sherrystrull

You're questioning the driving instructors reasons for not allowing unvaccinated people in their car because they don't agree with your opinions. They are allowed to do what they want regarding covid safety just like you are. Why question at all?

Usually if something doesn't make sense to you, you ask a question to try and make sense of it.

I dont have an issue with their views, or even that they would rather not teach an unvaccinated person.

How is that me trying to deny their freedom of choice?

@Staffy1 oh yes we’ve had tiered employment restrictions for quite a while now - healthcare workers since November I think, oil and gas workers, police, firies, truckies, airport worker etc. And then from the 31st of jan pretty much everyone - supermarket workers, restaurant and fast food workers, post office, child care, department store, teachers, bankers, vets, petrol station workers, morticians…

Its their right fo decide as well as its yours to not get vaccinated and in other countries there are so much stricter rules so going abroad may throw up same issues and thats how it is
I still thought a vaccinated person was still slightly less likely to catch it and pass it on even of thats only 10% less it still reduces
Tests aren't always right either

But their vaccinated pupils are just as much likely to infect them as I am

I must say it is interesting to see how ill informed unvaccinated individuals are. It only takes a few minutes on a search engine to disprove these false ideas. Oh well I am glad at least the driving instructor has critical thinking skills.

@ImustLearn2Cook

AllyBama I live in Western Australia and from the 31st of this month, the unvaccinated are going to come under the strictest restrictions in the world that I’m aware of. And I say this as a triple vaxxed ICU nurse, and even I went ‘oh wow’.

They won’t be able to visit any hospitals or aged care facilities, any drinking or dining at any hospitality venue (so from a posh restaurant right down to McDonald’s but they can get takeaway), no amusement parks or the zoo, no theatres or movie cinemas, no music festivals, no gyms, no indoor play centers (ie: soft play), the casino, bottle shops (the off license - you can’t buy alcohol in supermarkets here), no nightclubs or live music venues. For real. It’s all a bit surreal.

@AllyBama I live in Queensland, Australia and we had those restrictions put in place in December. We have to be double vaccinated and show proof to be able to eat in a restaurant or go to a theme park etc.

I was delayed in getting my first jab because I had the flu and I had to wait at least a week after symptoms had ended before I could get vaccinated. Then wait a further 3 weeks before my second jab. Because this was right before Christmas (with not enough notice) I missed out on planned Christmas events with dd. I had tickets for White Christmas at Movie World to take dd and lucky her dad was double vaccinated and he could still take her.

It seems like a small thing to be upset at missing out. But, this to me was precious family time and the magic of Christmas will one day be a bit less as my dd gets older. I don’t feel right about having freedom and autonomy taken away. I don’t like being told by my government that vaccinations won’t be made mandatory but on the other hand, if you want to be able to do certain things or go to certain places or have access to certain services then it actually is mandatory. I don’t like being lied to or mislead. The truth is that vaccinations have been made mandatory to be able to participate in society here in Australia.

I wonder if this is on the horizon for the UK. At the moment, you have freedom of choice.

Yeah it’s interesting isn’t it. I’m not fundamentally opposed to these restrictions because as an ICU nurse I know that the the lions share of patients I’ll be nursing when we open WA will be the unvaccinated. And those unvaccinated will happily be pumped full of all kind of drugs, including experimental ones, in order to keep their lives.

I get what you’re saying about family memories and stuff, I do. Maybe you missed out this year but you’ll be able to go back next year. I think we should be glad it’s not us having to make these big decisions about who gets jabbed and who doesn’t, there’s really no winner and ultimately no one is happy are they.

@user01837901 yes you read this all the time and then they save vaccinated people are getting , well of course they are as theres more of them but the chances are reduced slightly and we are only able to start having less restrictions due to the high vaccination rates of those of us that have had the vaccine

@AllyBama thats what i find strange if they get it and are hospitalised many will be given new drugs and all sorts and that they are ok with

@worriedatthemoment exactly, I don’t understand why it is so hard to read scientifically proven data and not make false claims on forums on the basis of rights and freedoms and what not. Everyone has been affected by Covid-19 and driving instructors I am sure are trying to prevent further damage to their businesses like everyone else.

It’s as simple as you get to make your choices and they get to make their choices.

I think if you want to exercise free choice you have to accept that other people are going to exercise free choice too.

So basically, you’re allowed to choose whether or not to get vaccinated. They are allowed to choose who they spend time with or provide services to.

Freedom of choice doesn’t mean freedom from the consequences of that choice.

And I think it’s bit much to expect free choice for yourself and then be offended by other people’s freedom of choice. If you think it’s ok to try to compel or shame into doing what you want instead, then you can’t really complain about people trying to compel or shame you into getting vaccinated.

So basically I think you sound like you want freedom of choice for yourself but the ability to control other people’s choices. And that is hypocrisy with a side order of being dominant and controlling. I’d run a smile.

I must say it is interesting to see how ill informed unvaccinated individuals are. It only takes a few minutes on a search engine to disprove these false ideas.

This is how they end up choosing not to be vaccinated in the first place.

@Sort0f

It’s as simple as you get to make your choices and they get to make their choices.

I think if you want to exercise free choice you have to accept that other people are going to exercise free choice too.

So basically, you’re allowed to choose whether or not to get vaccinated. They are allowed to choose who they spend time with or provide services to.

Freedom of choice doesn’t mean freedom from the consequences of that choice.

And I think it’s bit much to expect free choice for yourself and then be offended by other people’s freedom of choice. If you think it’s ok to try to compel or shame into doing what you want instead, then you can’t really complain about people trying to compel or shame you into getting vaccinated.

So basically I think you sound like you want freedom of choice for yourself but the ability to control other people’s choices. And that is hypocrisy with a side order of being dominant and controlling. I’d run a smile.

Don't know how you've come to that when I have repeatedly said that I respect their choice and have no issue with it.

@Sparklingbrook

I don’t think a driving instructor wanting their pupils to be vaccinated is that unreasonable. No social distancing in the car, and it’s their livelihood so they’d want to do everything to not have to stop working yet again.

This.

It’s just down to common sense. Find yours, and get your vaccination.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@AllyBama thats what i find strange if they get it and are hospitalised many will be given new drugs and all sorts and that they are ok with [/quote]
Oh yeah, that’s the biggest joke isn’t it. I’ve not once in my 17 years been asked to show data or evidence or anything really for the myriad of drugs and procedures we do ICU patients. Nor have I had a family say ‘I’ve done my own research and we’d like our family member ventilated a different way’, or ‘We don’t think ventilation is the right way to go, we don’t believe in it’. They completely surrender to modern medicine when their loved one is in multi organ failure from a probably preventable illness via vaccination.

We of course tell the patients and families about what we're doing to them but sometimes it can be new and experimental because that’s what medicine is. We’re not doing the same stuff we were doing 20 years ago and nor would you want us to. That’s because of (safe) experimentation and research.

@AllyBama it is the way it’s been handled that I have an issue with. FWIW I had tried to book in to get vaccinated earlier to no avail. The first attempt I was told that I wasn’t in the tier to qualify for vaccination. The second attempt everywhere was fully booked or had run out of vaccines. When we were informed that we had a timeframe to get double vaccinated before the restrictions I was isolating at home with sick dd, then I became unwell for 2 weeks.

There have been delays in making the vaccinations available and because of this people should have been given more time. It is unnecessarily punitive. Isolating at home when unwell has been working. It is something we still have to do. Being vaccinated doesn’t prevent the spread of Covid, it allegedly lessens the severity of the symptoms. Good hygiene and staying at home if unwell is probably the most important thing we can do to minimise cross contamination and infection.

I also, have an issue with rapid antigen tests being unavailable. This makes me feel that people are being disempowered from managing their own lives and health. That is not a good thing.

I can understand a driving instructor - because they are in close proximity for at least a couple of hours for each lesson. It would be better to have both lateral flow test and vaccination. You don’t know if the instructor has some medical issues (maybe not CEV, but could be at increased risk, or lives with someone who does).

@ImustLearn2Cook

AllyBama I live in Western Australia and from the 31st of this month, the unvaccinated are going to come under the strictest restrictions in the world that I’m aware of. And I say this as a triple vaxxed ICU nurse, and even I went ‘oh wow’.

They won’t be able to visit any hospitals or aged care facilities, any drinking or dining at any hospitality venue (so from a posh restaurant right down to McDonald’s but they can get takeaway), no amusement parks or the zoo, no theatres or movie cinemas, no music festivals, no gyms, no indoor play centers (ie: soft play), the casino, bottle shops (the off license - you can’t buy alcohol in supermarkets here), no nightclubs or live music venues. For real. It’s all a bit surreal.

@AllyBama I live in Queensland, Australia and we had those restrictions put in place in December. We have to be double vaccinated and show proof to be able to eat in a restaurant or go to a theme park etc.

I was delayed in getting my first jab because I had the flu and I had to wait at least a week after symptoms had ended before I could get vaccinated. Then wait a further 3 weeks before my second jab. Because this was right before Christmas (with not enough notice) I missed out on planned Christmas events with dd. I had tickets for White Christmas at Movie World to take dd and lucky her dad was double vaccinated and he could still take her.

It seems like a small thing to be upset at missing out. But, this to me was precious family time and the magic of Christmas will one day be a bit less as my dd gets older. I don’t feel right about having freedom and autonomy taken away. I don’t like being told by my government that vaccinations won’t be made mandatory but on the other hand, if you want to be able to do certain things or go to certain places or have access to certain services then it actually is mandatory. I don’t like being lied to or mislead. The truth is that vaccinations have been made mandatory to be able to participate in society here in Australia.

I wonder if this is on the horizon for the UK. At the moment, you have freedom of choice.

I frankly find that terrifying. I suspect you will end up with large swathes of the population aligning their beliefs with a number of the Aboriginal Community and striking back.

Remember those same places the non vaccinated will be banned from, are the same places a number of those that don't wish to take the vaccination work. Will your Goverment be happy to start paying state benefits to these people?

@Youarefakenews Most of our population are complying.

[quote ImustLearn2Cook]@AllyBama it is the way it’s been handled that I have an issue with. FWIW I had tried to book in to get vaccinated earlier to no avail. The first attempt I was told that I wasn’t in the tier to qualify for vaccination. The second attempt everywhere was fully booked or had run out of vaccines. When we were informed that we had a timeframe to get double vaccinated before the restrictions I was isolating at home with sick dd, then I became unwell for 2 weeks.

There have been delays in making the vaccinations available and because of this people should have been given more time. It is unnecessarily punitive. Isolating at home when unwell has been working. It is something we still have to do. Being vaccinated doesn’t prevent the spread of Covid, it allegedly lessens the severity of the symptoms. Good hygiene and staying at home if unwell is probably the most important thing we can do to minimise cross contamination and infection.

I also, have an issue with rapid antigen tests being unavailable. This makes me feel that people are being disempowered from managing their own lives and health. That is not a good thing.[/quote]
Yeah I completely get where you’re coming from. The execution has been farcical.

[quote ImustLearn2Cook]@Youarefakenews Most of our population are complying.[/quote]
Yep, all states and territories are nearing or have reached 90% double vaxxed and I suspect these new restrictions will probably sway quite a lot of the remainers.

I think although you are prepared to respect other’s decisions to not offer you a service, as they respect your decision not to be vaccinated you need to prepare for more restrictions if you remain un vaccinated. I think Australia are leading the way in how the world will become.

On a personal level individuals have just as much right to not want to work in close proximity to someone who isn’t vaccinated as they do to not have the vaccine.

You can’t argue for people to have the right to not vaccinate and then argue people are wrong for wanting to minimise close contact with them. Freedom of choice has to work both ways

I would fully support a driving instructor who doesn’t want to spend an hour at a time with someone in a car who is unvaccinated. Your choice to be vaccinated, their choice to not interact with you

I am glad to be in Australia. If people have a genuine reason for exemption that is approved by the chief medical officer then they can be treated as those who are vaccinated. Everyone wears masks pretty much. I always thought Australia was closer to America in terms of individualism but maybe I was wrong. There seem to be a lot more people in the UK who only consider themselves