that is one brave doctor

[MrsLargeEmbodied]

to speak about not having the vaccination
www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/08/nhs-doctor-challenges-sajid-javid-over-covid-vaccination-rules

he has had a lot of support

would question the need to get a jab four times a year

Who is being vaccination for coronavirus four times a year?

The doctor in the article hasn't had any vaccines, so I'm not entirely sure why he's complaining about a (non-existant) 8 week rolling schedule.

*vaccinated

In his position, if he was going to state his anti vax stance, he really should have made sure what he said was correct and backed by fact and evidence. Too much damage has been done even he if apologised or corrected himself later. Those who share the same belief don't care, they will use it regardless. It's definitely not a bravery, it's complete irresponsibility.

Given how high vaccination rates are as quoted below it seems unlucky they got one of the few consultants that had this view

Do they not chat before interview

@ollyollyoxenfree

would question the need to get a jab four times a year

Who is being vaccination for coronavirus four times a year?

The doctor in the article hasn't had any vaccines, so I'm not entirely sure why he's complaining about a (non-existant) 8 week rolling schedule.

He isn't complaining about a non existant 8 week schedule.

He is questioning the scientific reasoning for mandating vaccines which have such a short shelf life that they would need to be given on such a schedule in order to have the desired effect of the mandate. And, as you point out, there are no plans to mandate that schedule, which therefore raises a huge question mark over the point of mandating 1 or 2 doses.

@ollyollyoxenfree

would question the need to get a jab four times a year

Who is being vaccination for coronavirus four times a year?

The doctor in the article hasn't had any vaccines, so I'm not entirely sure why he's complaining about a (non-existant) 8 week rolling schedule.

Well firstly, wasn't it April last Year the first vaccine was handed out. The public have been asked to get two vaccinations & a third booster. That would be three vaccinations in eight months.

Secondly, the BBC report correcting the Dr and his assessment of how long each vaccines immunity lasted, Quoted as saying the current research shows each vaccine gives protection for 12 weeks. Therefore by that reckoning, to have complete coverage one would need over four vaccines a year.

He is questioning the scientific reasoning for mandating vaccines which have such a short shelf life that they would need to be given on such a schedule in order to have the desired effect of the mandate. And, as you point out, there are no plans to mandate that schedule, which therefore raises a huge question mark over the point of mandating 1 or 2 doses.

Nobody knew that a booster would be required a few months after the second a year ago and yet he didn't have a vaccine then. It's not the reason he is unvaccinated. We don't know that boosters will be required more than once a year in the future.

Well firstly, wasn't it April last Year the first vaccine was handed out. The public have been asked to get two vaccinations & a third booster. That would be three vaccinations in eight months.

The first vaccines were given in December 2020 to NHS staff. It would have been three vaccines in a year.

I expect people will flock to spend money at his private breathlessness clinic.

No ulterior motive at all.

@Belladonna12

He is questioning the scientific reasoning for mandating vaccines which have such a short shelf life that they would need to be given on such a schedule in order to have the desired effect of the mandate. And, as you point out, there are no plans to mandate that schedule, which therefore raises a huge question mark over the point of mandating 1 or 2 doses.

Nobody knew that a booster would be required a few months after the second a year ago and yet he didn't have a vaccine then. It's not the reason he is unvaccinated. We don't know that boosters will be required more than once a year in the future.

From what I understand of the video he hasn't said why he is not vaccinated but he has said that he has had covid and has antibodies.

He seems to mention vaccine waning as a follow up to that therefore making the point that as vaccine protection wanes so quickly someone like him has a similar risk status to someone vaccinated a while ago.

Can you fault the logic of that? I can't.

@AndAnotherNewOne ONS report that “Across all age groups, people living in more deprived areas were less likely to have received a vaccination against COVID-19” I can’t imagine that his private clinic will benefit much from him sharing his unvaccinated status and anti-mandate opinions. Would it not be more likely that he’d lose business for his opinions given the amount of people criticizing him?

Would it not be more likely that he’d lose business for his opinions given the amount of people criticizing him?

I think he'd corner the market in treating breathless anti vax people with long covid. Particularly the ones who don't believe that covid even exists.

In March 2020 I decided the covid vaccine would last about like the flu one does and on that basis it is not one for me. Had it been likely to last 20 years I might have had it.

I am happy with my decision.

From what I understand of the video he hasn't said why he is not vaccinated but he has said that he has had covid and has antibodies.

He seems to mention vaccine waning as a follow up to that therefore making the point that as vaccine protection wanes so quickly someone like him has a similar risk status to someone vaccinated a while ago.

Can you fault the logic of that? I can't.

The fault in his logic is that he doesn't seem to take into account the fact that his antibodies will have also have waned. NHS workers were generally tested before vaccines were available i.e. before December 2020 and he doesn't know that they are similar to someone who has recently been vaccinated.

@Belladonna12 he may be testing his antibodies regularly for all we know. I had Covid March 2020 and did antibody tests in April, June and October 2021 which were all positive so antibodies from infection can last 18months+.

Some staff at Kings were indeed involved in a research project regarding antibodies which started before vaccinations were available, if he is not involved in that, he may well be aware of other colleagues who are regularly having their antibody levels checked.

@Belladonna12

From what I understand of the video he hasn't said why he is not vaccinated but he has said that he has had covid and has antibodies.

He seems to mention vaccine waning as a follow up to that therefore making the point that as vaccine protection wanes so quickly someone like him has a similar risk status to someone vaccinated a while ago.

Can you fault the logic of that? I can't.

The fault in his logic is that he doesn't seem to take into account the fact that his antibodies will have also have waned. NHS workers were generally tested before vaccines were available i.e. before December 2020 and he doesn't know that they are similar to someone who has recently been vaccinated.

This is pure speculation.

You have no idea when this man had covid. You have no idea when he last tested for antibodies. You have no idea if his antibodies are being regularly boosted by coming into contact with covid patients.

You have no idea how recently his colleagues were vaccinated. One could speculate that as front line workers they would have been some of the first to be offered vaccines.

His point is perfectly logical and it's quite incredible the mental gymnastics people are willing to do in order to deny that.

Is your position that someone vaccinated a year ago with a vaccine which wanes and which provides little or no protection against contracting and transmitting omicron should keep their job whilst a person who has a recent enough infection to test positive for antibodies should lose theirs??

Because that is not about protecting vulnerable patients it's about punishing people and removing their means to earn a living in order to make a political point. It is extremism.

Because that is not about protecting vulnerable patients it's about punishing people and removing their means to earn a living in order to make a political point. It is extremism.

Very well said.

[quote Awakened22]@Belladonna12 he may be testing his antibodies regularly for all we know. I had Covid March 2020 and did antibody tests in April, June and October 2021 which were all positive so antibodies from infection can last 18months+.[/quote]
He didn't say that he was testing regularly and I'm not sure that would help his argument anyway. Would it be realistic for the NHS to test workers regularly for antibodies so that they didn't have to have vaccinations? That would be very time consuming and expensive compared with vaccination and what would happen if tests showed the antibody levels had decreased? Would the worker be asked to catch covid again to avoid vaccination?

[quote Awakened22]@Belladonna12 he may be testing his antibodies regularly for all we know. I had Covid March 2020 and did antibody tests in April, June and October 2021 which were all positive so antibodies from infection can last 18months+.[/quote]
On GMB this morning he said he had asked to have his antibodies tested at the hospital where he works.

I think Dr Hilary made him look stupid and a grown highly trained man who needs to reference his mum to defend himself looks a bit pathetic.

Because that is not about protecting vulnerable patients it's about punishing people and removing their means to earn a living in order to make a political point. It is extremism.

Of course it is about protecting vulnerable patients. Regardless of whether people have antibodies from previous infection, research suggests they have more immunity if vaccinated too. They are less likely to get infected and if they do their viral load will be lower and they will be infectious for a shorter time. Regardless his means for making a living will not be removed. There are plenty of other jobs.

Right. So you want this man who has had covid and has antibodies to have a vaccine as well because research suggests that he would then have "more immunity".

Would you like his vaccinated colleagues to catch covid so that they can be on the same page as him and have "more immunity" too?

Or is it just him that you want to be made to take a belt and braces approach?

If he can't work without a vaccine plus infection why can his colleagues work with a vaccine but no infection?

If we follow your logic the only HCPs allowed to continue in their jobs would be ones who can prove both infection and vaccination.

Which is fine, there are plenty of other jobs they can do after all. I know we clapped for them a few short months ago whilst they were risking their health and lives looking after our loved ones without the protection of vaccines but they can fuck off to the job centre now.

If he can't work without a vaccine plus infection why can his colleagues work with a vaccine but no infection?

Err... Because when people get infected with covid they might be really ill themselves plus they may infect other people.

@ancientgran we’ll definitely have to disagree! A man respecting and valuing his mums opinion is never pathetic in my eyes. I also know that I’d rather have an unvaccinated Dr James treating me in hospital then Dr Hilary!

What a fool he is