Unvaccinated

[Ineke]

Does anyone else feel frustrated that so many people are waiting for urgent hospital treatment such as cancer and heart surgery, but their slots are being cancelled because hospital beds are being taken up by unvaccinated Covid patients. Many of whom beg to be vaccinated when they reach Intensive Care but by then of course it’s too late. I am beginning to feel that if you are anti Vaxer, then you should not expect a hospital bed if and when you get ill. If you refuse a vaccine, then sign something to say that you will refuse treatment if needed. I feel anguish for those people whose cancer treatment has been postponed because of selfish people too proud to be vaccinated.
The other frustration I have is that now positive Lateral flows don’t need to be confirmed with a PCR, so track and trace is not in place, I would imagine that many of those asymptomatic people with positive lateral Flows will just carry on as normal and go about those daily businesses , and not self isolate, perhaps they will keep away from their family and friends, but will not stay indoors for seven days if they feel ok and don’t have to report their status to anyone. How many people send in their results, negative/positive after each test that they take.. I must admit, that I only send in one out of three but we should send in the result each time. So far, I haven’t caught this virus, but am expecting to sooner or later with Omicron.

So what do you suggest ? Leaving people to die on the street or in their homes in front of they’re loved ones ? Why not make an example out of these “filthy anti vaxxers” and have them publicly flogged while they gasp their last , Let’s get their families to watch especially their young children- Sound good? Of course not , it’s barbaric and what you are suggesting Is the same - the NHS is exactly that , a service for everyone , the whole idea was for every person to be able to access medical care .
I’m an ex NHS nurse , When I worked bank shifts in a and e we had people in with head injuries from a drunken night out, alcohol poisoning, you name it , in theory they should have just been left to die after all they brought it on themselves right ?
There are many reasons why people may not be vaccinated and most of the time it’s fear , fear of reactions or health complications following it . Stop directing your anger at people who aren’t vaccinated and maybe direct it at our useless government who have single handedly been screwing over the NHS for YEARS

Boris said the unboosted account for 90% of people in intensive care which means they were all
@dogwog that is just typical BJ bluster.
Apparently Doctors in some ICU units told him this. I think we need to wait for ICNARC data to see breakdown unvaccinated, single, double snd boosted in ICU.

I'm so sick to death of narrow minded people like you! Get a life, focus your energy on something other than bashing people who can't have or don't want the vaccine!

@whymewhyme

I'm so sick to death of narrow minded people like you! Get a life, focus your energy on something other than bashing people who can't have or don't want the vaccine!

Who are you addressing?

The smokers and obese people who have developed cancer because of the lifestyle choices they have made will understand, don't worry.

I feel anguish for those people whose cancer treatment has been postponed because of selfish people too proud to be vaccinated.

Yeah that's not happening. The NHS is fucked due to underfunding and staff shortages. I feel anguish that so many daily mail readers have joined MN.

Yes it frustrates me, but I still believe they should get treatment.
I say this as someone who has been waiting for surgery for two and a half years and will need an itu bed afterwards.
I don't believe that the biggest problem is non vacinated people in itu. I think that it's much more complex than that. The NHS was failing before covid (by the time covid hit I'd already been waiting 9 months for my operation). To add to the already long wait times the NHS had to adapt quickly /cancel many things, has had staff sickness, staff leaving, patients with covid spending longer in hospital on average than a surgical patient. The reasons for the delays in treatment are numerous.
I'm also worried about the many chronically ill (including 2 dc and me) who have not had a face to face consultation since March 2020. When all these people finally get seen what problems are we going to unearth?

From the moment I read this

Many of whom beg to be vaccinated when they reach Intensive Care

I knew what type of person the OP was 😂😂 my Dad spouts shit like this with a weird little smile on his face it's quite sinister actually.

I love how covid has given people an excuse to act like they give a shit about anyone else or the NHS. Years of underfunding, no pay rises for nurses etc, sneering at people on benefits, voting in parties who could not give a shit about anyone except their rich mates, anger at the thought of children getting free meals during the holidays but this is what anger people?

It's boring, predictable and frankly bollocks. Just another way someone can feel superior. I knew this would be the new go to response used by people when he said it a few weeks ago. My bet on the next one is "keep schools open" campaign ...

It really is sinister, they definitely take some joy in unvaccinated people being in hospital too, despite complaining about it.

Unvaccinated/hospital beds
Personally I will never begrudge an ill person a hospital bed, regardless of how they got there. It's not my friend's fault that he fell off a mountain and needed airlifting to hospital and it's not someone else's fault if they contract a communicable disease, get ill and need a hospital bed. No healthcare system in the world has enough beds for 100% of poorly people 100% of the time and unfortunately this means that some people either wait, or miss out. It's sad and it's shit at a personal level but it's also the way the real world works: imperfectly.

Test and trace
T&T is utterly pointless now due to omicron. It spreads too fast and to too many people. It's a bureaucracy that cannot possibly keep up with the reality of nature.

Omicron will (ultimately) be the end of things like test and trace and vaccine passports, I think.

No, it doesn't frustrate me.
I don't care if people are vaccinated or not.

You have to give them hospital treatment, but I understand the frustration. We are all sitting here waiting to see just how many of them end up in hospital and if we need further restrictions because of it.

Different if it’s a health based restriction but when it’s a proactive choice and they can see the impact on society their choice is making then it’s difficult to accept these Covid anti vaxxers.

@HopeYourHighHorseBucks

From the moment I read this

Many of whom beg to be vaccinated when they reach Intensive Care

I knew what type of person the OP was 😂😂 my Dad spouts shit like this with a weird little smile on his face it's quite sinister actually.

I love how covid has given people an excuse to act like they give a shit about anyone else or the NHS. Years of underfunding, no pay rises for nurses etc, sneering at people on benefits, voting in parties who could not give a shit about anyone except their rich mates, anger at the thought of children getting free meals during the holidays but this is what anger people?

It's boring, predictable and frankly bollocks. Just another way someone can feel superior. I knew this would be the new go to response used by people when he said it a few weeks ago. My bet on the next one is "keep schools open" campaign ...

Actually the op is correct, some doctors and scientists have commented that this is what happens then get really Ill and then ask if they can be vaccinated, it was on the news the other day. Of course they can’t be, you need to be virus free to be vaccinated.

fullfact.org/health/unvaccinated-icu-channel4-icnarc/

Anyway OP...

What happens when you have say a 20 year old unvaccinated person needing a bed and a 60 year old cancer patient who has smoked 50 fags a day for the last 40 years, also needs a bed? Who in your view deserves that bed? Who will you direct your anger to then? (Obviously not all cancer is from smoking and not every 20 year old is unvaccinated)

It's best not to get in to who deserves treatment from the NHS when there could be an argument against many "everyday things". Smoking/obesity/sport injury etc.

@vera99

My nephew's 32 years old is holding out. His daughter and wife have both had covid at different times and he tested negative both times. He says why should I ? I've stopped arguing but said then this is the way the world is going if you want to limit your travel/employment/access to services then go ahead. He's quite bitter now when all he has to do is go online make a booking and turn up and have it done. He also likes to chuck in this is how Nazism started which is nonsense. He's the only one in our circle of family and friends that has confessed to that and it's sad to see him in a lonely place but that's his choice.

He is playing a dangerous game. No hardship to be jabbed. Takes just a few seconds.

He may get it and he may get it badly, does he want to be in hospital, does he want to see his family upset, does he think about long covid?

Those are the things i suppose. His choice but really a poor choice and not thinking of his family etc.

It's entirely possible to be pro-vax and believe in science but be against every dickhead authoritarian lunatic pointless move, from having to have a meal with your alcohol, to taped off washbasins in public toilets ffs, to vaccine passports, dubious whether all this has saved a single life. This pandemic has brought out every nasty little prick who wants to govern people's lives, in a terrible alliance with every deranged hypochondriac incapable of accepting any form of risk and unable to accept the fairly basic premise of higher risks of mortality (overwhelmingly) amongst the elderly.

I’m pro choice & always will be so. You don’t trample over human rights as & when it suits. It’s not on.

I would imagine that many of those asymptomatic people with positive lateral Flows will just carry on as normal and go about those daily businesses , and not self isolate, perhaps they will keep away from their family and friends, but will not stay indoors for seven days if they feel ok and don’t have to report their status to anyone.

Can you explain how this is any different to the situation before? No one frog marched you to a PCR testing centre. You could well get a positive LFT and decide not to get a PCR - either because you didn’t see the point and then isolated and informed close contacts yourself or less likely, because you wanted to go out and about as normal and break the law.

I’ve been a close contact twice in the last two weeks and haven’t been contacted by T&T. Everyone knows the drill by now anyway. Had dinner with someone, the next day they tested positive on LFT so they sent me a text… I mean sure, I could wait 3 or 4 days for them to get a PCR, get the result, fill in the form and then get a contact from T&T but why would this be better?

Actually the op is correct, some doctors and scientists have commented that this is what happens then get really Ill and then ask if they can be vaccinated, it was on the news the other day. Of course they can’t be, you need to be virus free to be vaccinated.

I didn't say the OP was incorrect. We've all seen the news. I was questioning why people like the OP and relatives of mine like to throw that out there, when it's never mentioned relating to smoking,obesity, injuries from high risk sport/activities all non essential that can unfortunately end with people in hospital. It's not because they give a shit, more because they want people to do what they want. Always said smugly rather than factually by those people.

Of course unvaccinated will want the vaccine when unwell in hospital, likewise smokers will wish they never smoked or a snowboarder wishing they never started. All will "take up hospital beds" as people like to put it.

Everyone deserves treatment.

when it's never mentioned relating to smoking,obesity, injuries from high risk sport/activities all non essential that can unfortunately end with people in hospital

I’m not commenting on the rest of your post but this isn’t true; self inflicted conditions are often talked about in the context of healthcare provision/cost and HCP’s often counsel patients who regret their choices that led to an almost inevitable conclusion. It’s part of the justification for higher taxes on alcohol and tobacco which is arguably a choice although addiction isn’t that straight forward.

I’ve found everyone has an opinion on self-inflicted illness and harm. The vaccine debate is a continuation on a variation that has been discussed for decades.

@XenoBitch

What does it make you then? Pro vaccine?

Why does someone who has not had a particular vaccine need a label?
Why put people into boxes?

People always label people, partly because we sometimes need to. For example, medical staff will need to know if you are 'unvaccinated' or not, in terms of Covid and other vaccinations too, and also for whole host of other medical information, such as Rhesus negative, HIV positive and so on!

People always label people, partly because we sometimes need to. For example, medical staff will need to know if you are 'unvaccinated' or not, in terms of Covid and other vaccinations too, and also for whole host of other medical information, such as Rhesus negative, HIV positive and so on!

I was referring to labels such anti-vax. They are not helpful, and often applied to people that are not anti-vax at all. Like I said in a previous comment, just because someone is not vaccinated does not make them an anti-vaxxer.

Another pokey post. OP hasn't even been back 🙃

Yawn. This topic is done to death and doesn't bring anything to the discussion, as frankly majority of people can only operate in terms of emotions, rather than hard numbers. For those of you saying that it's mainly unvaccinated blocking the hospital beds - yes, it's true, but has anyone looked at the age of those individuals? It's not healthy 20 and 30 year olds : assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1019992/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_38.pdf page 17 and 18.

@user123974397375 more 18 to 29 than 70 to 79 though if I read that tight