Plan for people who are CEV?

[Curiousmouse]

What is it?

Most of us had our boosters in September and early October.

We know that protection from Omicron is significantly reduced after 10-12 weeks, from a variety of studies.

The government now appears to have decided not to give fourth doses. Surely that means that the most vulnerable people are now ironically the least protected, given most others were vaccinated so much more recently. It's hard to see how we are going to avoid a deluge of CEV people hitting the hospitals. I don't feel confident at all.

(Yes I realise the small number of severely immunosuppressed will get fourth doses, but that isn't the same thing).

[quote Northsoutheastwest76]@Abraxan DH had a mix up too with his vaccinations too. His missed the letter re a third primary dose and ended up with a booster.
At least he WFH. So much harder when you have so much exposure.[/quote]
I'm hoping that it just gets sorted when I go for the 4th/booster vac in February. I have the letter which I have to take with me to a local walk in centre.

@PrincessNutNuts

Nothing short of a severe lockdown would have a chance of suppressing numbers to "safe" level

Addenbrookes Hospital found you can do it with air filtration.

Air filtration is an excellent way of reducing risk...but it doesn't remove risk. How could it? If I'm conversing with an infected person the air I expel doesn't instantly get drawn into the filter before any of it can be breathed in.... Besides, how could you possibly install millions of these in a matter of days to deal with current case numbers.

To quote from Professor Stephen Baker, from the Cambridge Institute of Therapeutic Immunology and Infectious Disease at the University of Cambridge, said:
“Cleaner air will reduce the risk of airborne disease transmission, but it’s unlikely to be the case that just installing an air filter will be enough to guarantee the air is clean enough. Every room and every situation will be different. A key part of our work has been developing a robust way of measuring air quality.”

Im CEV and been a ‘shielder’ the whole time but not immunosuppressed so had the booster but not entitled to the 4th and havent heard anything about being offered antivirals
I have numerous conditions that makes me very vulnerable

My 10 weeks since my booster is up….
That doesnt feel me with joy at all

Im CEV but * Not entitled to a 4th

A normal run of the meal cold has put me in hospital twice so im concerned

Is anyone receiving Humira for Crohnes disease. I’d be interested in knowing whether you are getting the 4th jab and PCR tests, as I seem not to qualify for them.
I think the Crohnes and Colitis website recommends a 4th jab for those receiving Humira or the equivalent biologic.

Perhaps you have a different idea of 'safe enough'?

Mine centres on keeping hospitals safe enough for vulnerable parients - so masks and pre-admission testing, vaccinated frontline staff and enough 'clean' facilities to let things like cancer investigations and diagnoses proceed.

Plus continued masks on all forms of public transport, and perhaps in certain essential shops (such as pharmacies and some maybe designated food suppliers) and perhaps some additional restrictions when new variants arise, at least until severity has been assessed.

Why do you think full lockdown is needed? It is just plain wrong to shut away millions of people. But I suspect it's a strawman argument

@Dinosaurwoman dh is on that drug for arthritis.
He qualified for 3rd Primary but missed the letter so had booster instead. Has received the PCR test too.
@Abraxan there seems to be a distinct inability of some posters to read the room with their comments. Just a cold or stop exaggerating FFS.
I hope you get vaccine issue sorted and avoid COVID again.

@treeflowercat

Nothing in this life can remove risks but if you can reduce it….well, don’t most of us aim for that in our lives? Driving a car at the speed limit whilst wearing a seatbelt does not remove the risk of death in a car accident but we know it significant reduces the risk of death.

99.9% of people on these threads that accept CEV people will have higher risks and we don’t expect zero Covid nor endless strict lockdowns. However, it’s about discussing mitigations for these risks. Some aren’t that complex but cost money e.g. better ventilation systems in schools. Unvaccinated young people crammed into airless rooms will be driving up the infection rate. Clearly it’s not their fault, of course. We all know the government does not value this so they’d rather piss money up the wall on things like test and trace.

@nether

Perhaps you have a different idea of 'safe enough'?

Mine centres on keeping hospitals safe enough for vulnerable parients - so masks and pre-admission testing, vaccinated frontline staff and enough 'clean' facilities to let things like cancer investigations and diagnoses proceed.

Plus continued masks on all forms of public transport, and perhaps in certain essential shops (such as pharmacies and some maybe designated food suppliers) and perhaps some additional restrictions when new variants arise, at least until severity has been assessed.

Why do you think full lockdown is needed? It is just plain wrong to shut away millions of people. But I suspect it's a strawman argument

I agree with what you're proposing, but on its own it wouldn't be nearly enough to even begin to reduce infections, but perhaps that's just how it has to be....

I think CEV are being thrown on the fire in the hope that most won’t be seriously ill. We have loads of jabs, the vaccination centres have loads of spare time due to cancellations by people who actually have covid. They should give a fourth to CEV who are 3 months post their third. My mum is in the severely immunosuppressed category and has had Az, Az, Pfizer and Moderna so seemingly no issue with mix and match.

@Mickarooni

Nothing in this life can remove risks but if you can reduce it….well, don’t most of us aim for that in our lives? Driving a car at the speed limit whilst wearing a seatbelt does not remove the risk of death in a car accident but we know it significant reduces the risk of death.

I completely agree... And I'm fully supportive of the roll-out of air filtration.

My issue was that @PrincessNutNuts appeared to be suggesting that this would be sufficient to control Omicron's spread... It would likely help reduce the speed of increase, but could hardly be expected to cause cases to fall on its own even if or could be miraculously made to appear in every room in the world!

@Dinosaurwoman
I’m on humours and getting the 4th dose this week - I hadn’t heard about the PCR until seeing it on this thread though!

@Dinosaurwoman

Is anyone receiving Humira for Crohnes disease. I’d be interested in knowing whether you are getting the 4th jab and PCR tests, as I seem not to qualify for them. I think the Crohnes and Colitis website recommends a 4th jab for those receiving Humira or the equivalent biologic.

I am on weekly amgevita and had a third primary dose, have booked a booster for next week so will see what they say when I’m there. Also got a letter today saying if I needed a pcr I was to book as a key worker so I got priority and could potentially access treatment. I’m in Scotland

@SpindleyCrow

(Yes I realise the small number of severely immunosuppressed will get fourth doses, but that isn't the same thing).

I'm in this group, OP, and I spoke to my GP practice today. The receptionist went to speak to the Practice Manager and apparently they have have not yet been given the information they need to proceed with a 4th vaccination (which would be my booster, as I had a 3rd primary jab).

I have no idea if this is right or not; so I've just emailed my CCG to ask for some clarity.

If there's no clarity for the 'critically vulnerable' group (the 500k) then there's going to be bugger all clarity for the rest of CEV.

You need to go to a walk in vaccine centre and take the letter from your consultant/GP with you (the one that said you were eligible for a 3rd vaccine) and proof of your 3rd primary vaccine appt with you and they will do it.

@treeflowercat

Given Omicron appears to be significantly less virulent than Delta, vaccines provide protection from severe disease and new anti-vitals appear to be very effective, what is the risk now if someone who is CEV catches Covid? Of course, it's still going to be higher than for the average person, but is the risk now comparable to other respiratory illnesses like flu? (accepting it was far higher pre-vaccine, with previous variants and before anti-virals?). If it is, then does Covid require any more caution than would have been taken pre-Covid?

Here we go again!! Every single time a post is put on MN regarding CEV somebody comes on with this. Its like a broken record. If you're not CEV and you dont get it then just scroll on by!

@ToManySnacks

Im CEV but * Not entitled to a 4th

A normal run of the meal cold has put me in hospital twice so im concerned

@ToManySnacks I'm sorry to hear it; and your situation is an excellent example of exactly why the government strategy is far too crude an instrument.

(And frankly why the "it's just a cold" merchants should shut up and go elsewhere with their message.)

So frustrating to see the minimisers on this thread. Unhelpful and insensitive.

I'm CEV and really confused about the antivirals/PCR. Are all CEV supposed to get that? I've heard nothing but as far as I know haven't been removed, was getting letters up to November I think when they 'stopped' shielding advice. I've had a booster but I'm not immunosuppressed, my vulnerability is due to a lung condition. Anyone know anything about how to qualify for the antivirals or is it yet another list??!

@herecomesthsun

And, quite apart from that, it is really unpleasant to come on a threat of people who have been shielding and are now exposed to significant risk of illness, and wrongly tell them that that they are fools afraid of the flu.

I've never said that someone who is CEV is a fool to be afraid of the flu - on the contrary, the flu is potentially dangerous and 1,000s die from it each year!

To repeat what I said previously, that the figures seem to indicate that the risk of Covid appears to be trending towards that of the flu isn't to say it is harmless at all... it's simply recognising that it's virulence trajectory is encouraging and that things have progressed very significantly from the article that you quoted from back in December 2020, and that's surely good news. The risk from Covid is significant enough as it is without exaggerating the threat by refusing to believe things haven't progressed from the dark days of 2020.

@treeflowercat

But irrvelevent with what impact flu or covid or any illness would have on any CEV or vunerable people.
Recovery that needs medical care will be a struggle right now.
The hospitals are beyond struggling so if you get ill with anything right now your recover chances will be lower yes even if you are normally in perfect health because the NHS are unable to offer their normal level of care and this is only likely to get worse this month.
This impacts non covid and covid treatments.
It is literally only a matter of time before someone dies due to lack of adequate care levels, and people are going to die that would normally live with treatment.

So right now the last place anyone with additional vunerabolities wanta to be is in hospital if they can avoid it

@Madhairday

So frustrating to see the minimisers on this thread. Unhelpful and insensitive.

I'm CEV and really confused about the antivirals/PCR. Are all CEV supposed to get that? I've heard nothing but as far as I know haven't been removed, was getting letters up to November I think when they 'stopped' shielding advice. I've had a booster but I'm not immunosuppressed, my vulnerability is due to a lung condition. Anyone know anything about how to qualify for the antivirals or is it yet another list??!

Here’s the NHS link

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/treatments-for-coronavirus/

As an aside, has anyone been able to get their under 11s vaccinated yet?
It was announced that under 11s who live with someone CEV (not sure if it was all categories of CEV or just a subset) could now have their vaccine.
All the centres I’ve tried aren’t doing it yet and 119/GP have no info. I have seen news stories of children in Scotland having theirs though!

@bessica1970

Not yet but 🤞 will know more soon.
If you get any updates let us know. Ours havent gone back to school as hoping to vaccinate first

@Bessica1970

As an aside, has anyone been able to get their under 11s vaccinated yet? It was announced that under 11s who live with someone CEV (not sure if it was all categories of CEV or just a subset) could now have their vaccine. All the centres I’ve tried aren’t doing it yet and 119/GP have no info. I have seen news stories of children in Scotland having theirs though!

It is supposed to be happening mid Jan (it's now on a Gov website somewhere)

[quote treeflowercat]@herecomesthsun

And, quite apart from that, it is really unpleasant to come on a threat of people who have been shielding and are now exposed to significant risk of illness, and wrongly tell them that that they are fools afraid of the flu.

I've never said that someone who is CEV is a fool to be afraid of the flu - on the contrary, the flu is potentially dangerous and 1,000s die from it each year!

To repeat what I said previously, that the figures seem to indicate that the risk of Covid appears to be trending towards that of the flu isn't to say it is harmless at all... it's simply recognising that it's virulence trajectory is encouraging and that things have progressed very significantly from the article that you quoted from back in December 2020, and that's surely good news. The risk from Covid is significant enough as it is without exaggerating the threat by refusing to believe things haven't progressed from the dark days of 2020.[/quote]
I'm not saying things haven't profressed, just that covid isn't the flu.

Apologies, I thought that said 2021, will have to find another.