No new measures in England before New Year

[Jourdain11]

Has just been announced by the Health Secretary and reported across BBC etc.

@Lifeisnteasy

When you say You seem incredibly single-track minded that covid is the only thing that matters and we should all happily give up our freedoms and lives for an indefinite number of years to control it I would just remind you that you know nothing about me, my family, my living situation, my work or my priorities. You should not project your fantasies onto strangers.

If you want to draw a line in the sand go right ahead. It is very naive to approach complicated problems as if they were simple, but you are at liberty to try to do that if you wish.

As for uncertainty just isn’t an option long term - maybe you have emotional difficulties around uncertainty? Many humans have and do live with ongoing uncertainty and being able to handle it is a strength. Again I would say that pretending to move on from covid is not going to help anyone.

Covid is what it is. You can't just wish reality away. Sadly for all of us!

[quote rrhuth]@Lifeisnteasy

When you say You seem incredibly single-track minded that covid is the only thing that matters and we should all happily give up our freedoms and lives for an indefinite number of years to control it I would just remind you that you know nothing about me, my family, my living situation, my work or my priorities. You should not project your fantasies onto strangers.

If you want to draw a line in the sand go right ahead. It is very naive to approach complicated problems as if they were simple, but you are at liberty to try to do that if you wish.

As for uncertainty just isn’t an option long term - maybe you have emotional difficulties around uncertainty? Many humans have and do live with ongoing uncertainty and being able to handle it is a strength. Again I would say that pretending to move on from covid is not going to help anyone.

Covid is what it is. You can't just wish reality away. Sadly for all of us![/quote]
What about all of us who have had COVID got a cold and would now like our lives back. You assume we want to protect you because that's the ethical thing to do. The majority of our friends and family have had it and all have been exposed, so for us their no reasons to even help control it as no one got more than the flu. Even our 90 year old grandparents felt a bit rough for a few days but nothing more than is normal at some point most winters.

We LF before seeing them as it was unpleasant for them and we are seeing friends so won't see them again until after it peaks. They are happy with that as they have seen everyone over Xmas and will now be battering down the hatches to watch rubbish TV and read the book collection we got them for Xmas.

The only person I know who has died of COVID was end of life yet I know a young man who killer himself over lockdown. I know which one we still mourn to this day

I'm not proud of this but honestly, I'm torn.

On the one hand I really really want it all to be fine and us to be over the hump and able to move on.

On the other hand I'd hate the Tory back benchers to be right.

And I knew a fit 26 year old who died from it.

The only thing I will say is everyone i know who has caught it recently are very poorly and these are young people without any other health conditions. Many going out on Friday will be mostly younger people and probably less likely to be vaccinated or boosted yet.
I agree that we will have to live with it and we can't keep on locking down , but I'm sure many more are poorly than we know about too and you still have to isolate if you have it too.
It is a dilemma and they are damned if the government do this or damned if they do the other. The headlines in the papers were mostly rejoicing at the news of no more restrictions for England. (No mention of the NHS and how they are coping. )
I'm sure some people in Wales or Scotland will come over the border too NYE if they are close enough too.
It has all caused so much division and different opinions :(

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow those are not alternative views but the same view....

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

I'm not proud of this but honestly, I'm torn.

On the one hand I really really want it all to be fine and us to be over the hump and able to move on.

On the other hand I'd hate the Tory back benchers to be right.

I totally get this too. I don't want the poor NHS to be overwhelmed , but also there is an air of ' it'll be ok , let's all hope it goes away ' too from people who are not scientists. It's all obviously money driven too, which I also get too to be honest as an economy can't function with more lockdowns etc. what would any of us do in this position?

I would just remind you that you know nothing about me, my family, my living situation, my work or my priorities.

So tell us. Here we are sharing our own circumstances and writing candid replies to your snarky messages, yet all you do is pick at others with your sarcastic responses.

What’s your situation? What are your priorities? What restrictions would you impose right now? Where do you think we will be without them in two months time?

The NHS needs to sort themselves out. They are always overwhelmed every sodding year. It’s less about money but how they use it. Personal responsibility seems to have disappeared now and the good old NHS will pay for lifestyle choices

It seems to me that the UK is suffering from being stupid. The data is clear that reasonable restrictions can keep covid at a level where society functions more normally and the economy grows.

The data is there - the UK has done worse on number of deaths as well as economically than comparable countries. The two go hand in hand.

Ignoring reality and getting rid of restrictions with covid will always result in economic damage. The data is there.

This country just wants to deny reality, same with Brexit. Reality will always come back to bite.

it is a pandemic so surely the world needs to react the same

@theemperorhasnoclothes

It seems to me that the UK is suffering from being stupid. The data is clear that reasonable restrictions can keep covid at a level where society functions more normally and the economy grows.

The data is there - the UK has done worse on number of deaths as well as economically than comparable countries. The two go hand in hand.

Ignoring reality and getting rid of restrictions with covid will always result in economic damage. The data is there.

This country just wants to deny reality, same with Brexit. Reality will always come back to bite.

What 'data'?

Omnicrom is highly transmissible. What data do you have which shows that 'reasonable restrictions', however they be defined, can ' keep covid at a level where society functions more normally and the economy grows'?

I'd be very surprised if any such 'data' exists.

@Franklin12

The NHS needs to sort themselves out. They are always overwhelmed every sodding year. It’s less about money but how they use it. Personal responsibility seems to have disappeared now and the good old NHS will pay for lifestyle choices

There have been continuous cutbacks in real terms for the NHS since the Conservatives took back power in 2010.

Other European countries that deliver healthcare systems that are generally praised on here- France and Germany - pay more GDP for their healthcare.

The US pays a much higher amount, with its insurance based system,

There is a dilemma if people want healthcare free at the point of delivery, as we basically now how have in Britain.

There is a lot of sense of entitlement, but also little personal sense of responsibility, for example people missing appointments without notice, which costs the NHS a huge amount each year.

We need to look as a society about what we want from our Health Service and how we plan to organise it, pay for it and use it.

For me it isn’t just about funding. The NHS is a bottomless pit constantly demanding more money- we spend hundreds of billions on it every year, yet still this is never enough.

We need to look at whether it ks being structured and run as efficiently as possible. We may even need to consider whether a different model of more suitable for the future.

There’s another thread where a poster’s dad had a heart attack and there was no ambulance for 2 hrs. She had to take him herself on a 30 minute drive with no call handler back up for advice. It very, very scary that parties are being prioritised over emergency health care.

@Benjispruce5

It’s not covid that’s overwhelming ambulance services though. It’s staff who are not I’ll having to isolate, illnesses that have not been treated during lockdown and GP services in some cases being closed for 2 years.

I heard this morning CDC / US advising move to 5 days isolation and out if no symptoms

@InCahootswithOrwell

Surely this is a good thing? The data has been looked at, and no restrictions are needed.

I’m pretty sure the data was looked at by experts who decided that restrictions were needed about a week ago. I think Boris means he has looked at the data which is a little less reassuring since I’m not sure he has a grasp of the relevant area so of maths/science and his overwhemlming motivation is keeping his job which relies on him not putting restrictions in place and keeping the libertarian section of his party on side.

Perfect summary yes I agree ☝🏻

@Lifeisnteasy

I would just remind you that you know nothing about me, my family, my living situation, my work or my priorities.

So tell us. Here we are sharing our own circumstances and writing candid replies to your snarky messages, yet all you do is pick at others with your sarcastic responses.

What’s your situation? What are your priorities? What restrictions would you impose right now? Where do you think we will be without them in two months time?

@Lifeisnteasy My priorities are health, education, the economy. None are improved by having badly-controlled covid. The UK has handled this crisis badly, in large part because we have a PM who can't handle the complexity and a lot of voters who favour simple platitudes too. Many people want it to be declared 'over', irrespective of whether it is actually over.

In two months' time? Who knows. Certainly the government do not.

In two weeks' time the expectation is we will have more cases than we do now. If we do not, I will be happy. Johnson has gambled again, he might get lucky this time, he might not. It'll be ordinary people like me who will pay if he is wrong. Maybe you are wealthy enough to ride it all out again. Not all of us are.

@rrhuth, Well said.

And if anyone thinks that "Wahay, NYE is on, let's PARTY!" means that NHS services and schools/your children's education will be unaffected by the ensuing fallout through January, then dream on.

What fascinates me is that people who want to party on, expect schools to be able to function as normal in January. It won’t happen.

The poster who spoke about the heart attack, there was a 3 car pile up near us, serious injuries and ambulance took 40 mins…

[quote PinkTree7]@Benjispruce5

It’s not covid that’s overwhelming ambulance services though. It’s staff who are not I’ll having to isolate, illnesses that have not been treated during lockdown and GP services in some cases being closed for 2 years.[/quote]
Also the fact that the NHS went into this with 100,000 staff vaccines, then Brexit on top added to staffing issues in hospitals, care homes and social care in crisis means hospitals are not able to release people from hospitals. Less beds than 10 years ago but an older generally sicker population and a failure to plan adequately for this.

“On the other hand I'd hate the Tory back benchers to be right”

I don’t understand this. I’m hoping that they’re right because the alternative would be terrible.
They seem to be talking common sense in light of the current situation. Whether that changes it or not remains to be seen but I’d be ecstatic if they’re proved to be right as it means we can start to move away from lockdowns and a struggling society and take steps to get back to normality.

The fact that there are no new restrictions during NYE doesn’t affect our family, we don’t go out much anyway and we’ve kept pretty low key throughout the Christmas period, up to now none of us have had Covid, which we’re thankful for as DS has needed an Op so getting a negative PCR and the Op going ahead was like winning a golden ticket!

Thinking about this time of year pre Covid, this was always the case during winter. Many procedures needed to be cancelled due to beds not being available, the added stress now is not catching Covid before a procedure.

Of course I’m lucky, don’t work in the NHS, retail or hospitality, or any other key worker roles, so have been able to keep low key, I can’t WFH but always get Christmas off.

The only thing I’m worried about is school’s opening and numbers rising even higher. More disruption to education, again. Schools need monitors in the classrooms, rather than relying on windows and doors being left open. Trying to teach and learn in a cold classroom is pretty grim! This should now be priority throughout the UK!

@Itisasecret

What fascinates me is that people who want to party on, expect schools to be able to function as normal in January. It won’t happen.

The poster who spoke about the heart attack, there was a 3 car pile up near us, serious injuries and ambulance took 40 mins…

I cant imagine that the young people who are currently planning their NYE party outfits are that bothered about the bigger picture.