Booster protection wanes after 10 weeks against omicron….

[Muchtoomuchtodo]

Just seen this on the BBC news
… mine was 13 1/2 weeks ago and I’ve just volunteered to cover extra shifts outside of my normal area of work in the NHS should the need arise.
Oh heck…..

@Claudethecat

Thank you very much, was searching for a headline as thought it would be bigger news than that. Off to look for a source 🙂

Short sharp controls could allow us to have near normality most of the time and keep it in check.

What sort of 'short sharp controls' do you want? We can't keep shutting down hospitality any so called non essential retail for example, businesses won't survive.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Short sharp controls could allow us to have near normality most of the time and keep it in check.

What sort of 'short sharp controls' do you want? We can't keep shutting down hospitality any so called non essential retail for example, businesses won't survive.

Agree this sounds hugely difficult.

And not very effective

Antibodies are a very poor measure of vaccine effectiveness.
In the long run, it's all about B cells and T cells.

A big part of omicron being mild is down to so many people having immunity due to vaccines and/or having had covid previously. Even though there is immune escape with this variant, it doesn't mean vaccines are or have been useless. We are not meeting omicron from a position of it being a novel virus in the way we were in 2020 when covid first started spreading.
Antibodies are also only part of the picture when it comes to immunity.

And protection against symptomatic disease wanes quicker than protection against severe disease, so in that sense the vaccines are doing the most important job of keeping people out of hospital.

I think this news will make people think twice about the cost/benefit of repeated boosters/revaccination.

I've been lucky and haven't had any symptoms after each jab, but some of my friends have been quite badly affected, one really so and on the verge of hospitalization; fit early forties person, no reason to think they would react like that.

The 'cost' of not vaccinating is getting covid, and then potentially getting it seriously, but this isn't and wasn't that likely for under 50's anyway- my children have only got their jab as they want to travel next year, not because they believe they need it. I don't think I need any more vaccines either, I'm not CV or CEV and I have colds/flu every year and recover quickly.

The Long Covid issue is more complicated- I've seen it argued that we should either prevent people getting covid, or get them vaccinated, to prevent Long Covid. I certainly think that if vaccination prevented it, or it was possible to prevent it then this would be desirable. One of mine had covid in the summer and has been exhausted ever since although not having any specific LC symptoms beyond that. I don't see the evidence though that repeated 3/6 months vaccines would prevent this. I also don't know if Omicron is as likely to cause post-viral syndrome, the early covids definitely did but we simply don't know now given it is seemingly milder in some regards. We just don't know much about Long Covid- and we don't seem able to prevent Omicron transmission anyway, so there's an inevitability about all of this which is worrying but I don't think entirely solvable. Lockdown of two weeks wouldn't prevent Omicron resurfacing if it is exceptionally transmissable.

*The study also shows the jab's ability to stop people catching Omicron starts to wane 10 weeks after a booster dose.

Protection against severe disease is likely to be far more robust.

However, the report says this protection drops by between 15% and 25% after 10 weeks. This is still better than having no booster dose and the protection against severe disease or death is likely to be even greater.*

Please read the whole article. THE PROTECTION AGAINST SEVERE DISEASE IS LIKELY TO BE EVEN BETTER. And it drops by 15-25%, so there's still more protection than not having it.

I understand people who've had side effects don't want a booster, but really, talk about scaremongering, it's equally the case about vaccines as it is about Covid.

And enough with the dark days nonsense, FFS. It's a world pandemic not the foothills of a totalitarian regime. I'm far more worried about a PM that lies to Parliament than one that puts in measures similar to many governments across the world.

Haven’t read the full thread but agree that 10 weeks is disappointing- it takes 2 weeks to even built the immunity so what’s that, 8 weeks of protection?!

@trappedsincesundaymorn

www.healthline.com/health/anxiety/effects-on-body#Immune-system

But if you repeatedly feel anxious and stressed or it lasts a long time, your body never gets the signal to return to normal functioning. This can weaken your immune system, leaving you more vulnerable to viral infections and frequent illnesses. Also, your regular vaccines may not work as well if you have anxiety

Maybe, if there wasn't so much doom, gloom and scaremongering coming from the media, governments and SM, things may start to change. Just a thought.

Why do you read it, if you think it's all scaremongering?

It makes much more sense to limit the amount of time you spend reading news if it makes you anxious. And absolutely NO reason to spend any time on FB or Twitter.

Can someone explain how these 'boosters' actually work? The vaccines used for boosters are all targeted against the original Alpha variant and we know the omicron variant can escape that immunity?!

So it it just a short term 'general' increase in antibody levels?

Wouldn't it be better to actually catch and fight off omicron? Wouldn't you get more targeted and longer lasting immunity?

Wouldn't it be better to actually catch and fight off omicron? Wouldn't you get more targeted and longer lasting immunity?.

Potentially. Unless you happen to be one of the minority that dies from covid.

A big part of omicron being mild is down to so many people having immunity

I'd love to see evidence for this statement. How much of the mildness is due to the intrinsic nature of omicron? How are unvaccinated people faring with omicron??

@Terminallysleepdeprived

Has omicron even been around long enough for them to have made any legitimate study???

Sounds like scare mongering

This.

You don't need to have a phD to see this for what it is. I've just had my booster. There's no way I'm going back for another one in 2.5 months time.

@Blubells

Can someone explain how these 'boosters' actually work? The vaccines used for boosters are all targeted against the original Alpha variant and we know the omicron variant can escape that immunity?!

So it it just a short term 'general' increase in antibody levels?

Wouldn't it be better to actually catch and fight off omicron? Wouldn't you get more targeted and longer lasting immunity?

I think many will catch it over next period (all exposed to? Not sure)

But the booster will mean getting through it without even higher numbers going in to hospital

Not sure if getting it whilst protected by booster also then increased immunity - but with lower risk

@Blubells

A big part of omicron being mild is down to so many people having immunity

I'd love to see evidence for this statement. How much of the mildness is due to the intrinsic nature of omicron? How are unvaccinated people faring with omicron??

You only have to read what’s in the news at the moment. Many scientists saying they believe one of the reasons it’s coming across milder is due to a combination of natural immunity and impact of vaccines. Many saying not possible to tell if it’s naturally milder yet.

"You don't need to have a phD to see this for what it is. "

Maybe you do need a modicum of common sense though.

Seriously there is a large pool of people some of whom have had boosters some not. Some of those people have had those boosters 10 weeks ago and some more recently.

In the last few weeks hundreds of thousands of those people have been infected with Omicron identified using sgtf I'm imagine.

All they have to do is to match up those pcr results with vaccine records to determine efficacy. They cannot yet do the same for hospitalisations but will do so over the next few weeks.

It's not scaremongering or inducing a state of fear or whatever Bollywood cks some people believe it. It is simply a statistical analysis of Omicron infections that have happened recently

@Blubells would it not be better to ask how those without immunity are faring? I’d imagine there’s quite a few unvaccinated people who’d have immunity or an antibody response from previous infection. 95%+ of the uk are estimated to now have antibodies from either vaccination or prior infection.

I have had 3 jabs, I may have had covid in March 2020, I had a lot of exposure to DD who was very positive to covid in the last 2 weeks and didn;t catch it.

I am wondering whether the exposure might have boosted my immunity and also curious, if so, as to how long it would last.

There is still way too much focus on antibody levels going on which is far from the full picture in terms of immune system.
If people still have protection from severe illness does it really matter if they catch it? Arguably actually better if they do in terms of broader, longer term immunity.

would it not be better to ask how those without immunity are faring?

Yes that would be very interesting. How are people without any vaccine or any antibodies faring with omicron?

To what extent is omicron intrinsically 'milder' in terms of the symptoms it causes?

Where would you go to get that info?

U.K. we are too high

Australia is useful for low immunity but they have high vaccination on most cases iirc

If people still have protection from severe illness does it really matter if they catch it? Arguably actually better if they do in terms of broader, longer term immunity.

I agree! What's the best way to get this long lasting immunity? Not with boosters, it seems.

There is emerging science and there is accepted science.

We really need to distinguish between the two.

Accepted science is peer reviewed, robust and feeds the guidance given by WHO and the NHS.

While it’s very important to know the emerging science, we should wait until it feeds the accepted science before making decisions.

One emerging study says one thing, and then another contradicts.

So you wait until it’s been fully evaluated.

No one is saying to halt vaccination, or that it’s ‘not worth it’ - even the studies themselves! That’s such a complete overreaction and dangerous conclusion to jump to.

This is the critical time to get it under control. If we need another booster then we get it. I would hope as the global vaccine drive increases, the severity of Covid decreases.

@Blubells

If people still have protection from severe illness does it really matter if they catch it? Arguably actually better if they do in terms of broader, longer term immunity.

I agree! What's the best way to get this long lasting immunity? Not with boosters, it seems.

But boosters really are necessary if we don’t want a multitude of elderly / vulnerable going into hospital

I can’t see that boosters are not a good idea.

Just need to work with period they are most effective

Maybe don’t try to delay infection

I would hope as the global vaccine drive increases, the severity of Covid decreases.

Do you mean the intrinsic severity of the Covid strains decreasing?