Hope the Govt keeps its nerve

[Wizzbangfizz]

Against another lockdown?

I know it is back bench pressure keeping us from where wales and Scotland are going to be/are. Due to that though I think we have a chance of coming through this - seeing it out and hopefully getting on with it on 2022 (I'd except back to tables in hospitality) - especially in light of the 10-7 days isolation reduction now?

@Kokeshi123

brilliant use of a Weasley quote

"but there is every chance that most people will fully recover over the longer term"

Doubt that is much consolation to people who are off work with it for months with only SSP or worse no sick pay at all.

Getting really desperate when people have to flail around looking for ‘long Covid’ excuse in their gagging for ‘lockdown’ because ‘Omicrom‘ is turning out to be or scary enough.

I think you meant to say:

If the restrictions are [not] needed the Welsh and scotland govs can removes them quickly.

It will be a good test. But past experience suggested restrictions come in, and are then very hard to remove.

It’s because you can’t tell — is it because of the restriction that keeps things better?; or despite it?

Anyway. Glad I’m in England. Which, despite the weather, is nice.

@walksen

"but there is every chance that most people will fully recover over the longer term"

Doubt that is much consolation to people who are off work with it for months with only SSP or worse no sick pay at all.

No, but then they probably aren't consoled by people bullshitting about the prevalence of long covid or pretending we have anything remotely resembling reliable data on it either.

@Tealightsandd

Yeah... Australia's surge couldn't possibly be in any way compared to the situation in the UK. The UK is one of the worse in the world - case numbers, death rates, and sheer numbers of dead.

Our 'stable' has been months of letting between100-200 a day be killed (and many more long-term sick). Almost nowhere else in the world is doing as little as us to save lives.

But you probably don't need to worry OP. Those like you, content with a policy that seees1000s a week dying month after month, will most likely be relieved. The situation in the UK will be/is dire - but mostly only in London. With 1/3 unvaccinated, the (millions) of vulnerable in London (including the 2/3 vaxxed) are in for it. But Londoners particularly the vulnerable are used to lesser protections than the rest of the UK. Eg. For decades London has been the epicentre of the public health housing and homelessness emergency (with a huge second home problem) but it's only very recent years, now the crisis is hitting elsewhere in the UK, that media and public attention is begining to focus on it.

So yes. If the situation continues as it is. Only London badly affected, than no public health measures will be taken.

I think we should differentiate between with and of covid, especially with what looks to be a less severe strain. Some bad years, over 26k people die of flu.

Scientists spoke last year of the hope this would eventually morph into another cold. We shouldn’t forget the common cold has proved deadly to cut off tribes, who have never been exposed to it.

@thewhatsit

Oh I know what you mean. I think we were a hair’s breadth from lockdown on Monday when the cabinet met and Boris announced his conference. It’s absolutely crazy that it can be decided as if on a whim like that and the fact that Boris is weak right now is what means we aren’t in some form of tightened restrictions right now.

A whim?

Are you serious?

The last thing it's decided on is a whim FGS.

I'm not sure what Whitty & co are saying, haven't heard for a few days, but they're a tad more informed/science based than a bunch of back benchers!!

@underneaththeash

I think we're doing okay so far.

Almost 2 years in & you still don't quite understand how it goes?

@Tealightsandd

Yeah... Australia's surge couldn't possibly be in any way compared to the situation in the UK. The UK is one of the worse in the world - case numbers, death rates, and sheer numbers of dead.

Our 'stable' has been months of letting between100-200 a day be killed (and many more long-term sick). Almost nowhere else in the world is doing as little as us to save lives.

But you probably don't need to worry OP. Those like you, content with a policy that seees1000s a week dying month after month, will most likely be relieved. The situation in the UK will be/is dire - but mostly only in London. With 1/3 unvaccinated, the (millions) of vulnerable in London (including the 2/3 vaxxed) are in for it. But Londoners particularly the vulnerable are used to lesser protections than the rest of the UK. Eg. For decades London has been the epicentre of the public health housing and homelessness emergency (with a huge second home problem) but it's only very recent years, now the crisis is hitting elsewhere in the UK, that media and public attention is begining to focus on it.

So yes. If the situation continues as it is. Only London badly affected, than no public health measures will be taken.

Maybe the OP isn’t content with the collateral damage of lockdown itself?? Covid is NOT the only tragic way to die.

I personally know far more people that have been negatively impacted by lockdown itself rather than Covid.

Suicides
Abuse cases
Old people dying in isolation
Mental health crises
People living in increasing poverty

Or do you not care about them??

We can vaccinate against Covid. We cannot vaccinate against lockdown.

@puppeteer

I think you meant to say:

If the restrictions are [not] needed the Welsh and scotland govs can removes them quickly.

It will be a good test. But past experience suggested restrictions come in, and are then very hard to remove.

It’s because you can’t tell — is it because of the restriction that keeps things better?; or despite it?

Anyway. Glad I’m in England. Which, despite the weather, is nice.

I'm not sure the Scottish government have ever removed a restriction quickly...

@Franklin12

Boris needs to hold his nerve. The scientists love their models, worst case scenarios, scaring the life out of people to cover themselves. They just want data after data and it’s about time the views were balanced.

I see Wales and Scotland did their usual controlling, we know what is best etc.

Fancy wanting 'data' not just people bleating about 'life goes on/back to normal' 🙄🙄

My prediction is that Boris, being the people pleaser he is, will introduce restrictions that don’t impact the economy so much.

I.e. reduced social contact (rule of 6 or two households or whatever)
Maybe table service in hospitality settings

That will appease the majority. Those gagging for lockdown will comply and feel ‘safer’. While the majority of us won’t bother complying.

What a society the UK (mainly England) has become. There are people who seem to genuinely believe it's worth killing Other People.

Well yes, as driving cars kills people, smoking, drinking, obesity kills people. High risk sports kills people. Flu and other diseases kill people.

We can't unfortunately prevent all deaths.

As a society we need to decide what an 'acceptable' level of death is, given the costs to society of not only the deaths but also the costs of preventing these deaths.

@Tryagainplease

My prediction is that Boris, being the people pleaser he is, will introduce restrictions that don’t impact the economy so much.

I.e. reduced social contact (rule of 6 or two households or whatever)
Maybe table service in hospitality settings

That will appease the majority. Those gagging for lockdown will comply and feel ‘safer’. While the majority of us won’t bother complying.

Even then I don't see this happening in the near future, he's just not in a position to piss his backbenchers off that much at the moment. He probably would like to go down this road, as it's sort of a compromise option, and he demonstrably doesn't give a shit about people in the hospitality sector anyway. So one of the easier ways to be seen as Doing Something, I agree. However I think the numbers would have to get worse.

I’m not sure about rule of 6 etc it doesn’t feel like it with current media but we’ll see

I do wonder how much difference the Covid passes that did come in will make - or even if they’ve been implemented and how it works

Hospitals always face increased pressure post Christmas as many people hang on not wanting to ruin Christmas Day, then there's the increase in household mixing and the usual overindulgence on alcohol that pushes things up. If an already under pressure/ short staffed NHS is to also cope with this and NYE celebrations if they are permitted how will this go? It will then shortly be followed by a return to schools on 4th of Jan when invariably cases will go up. I truly hope that they don't need any more restrictions but at the very least I think there ought to be something to relieve the pressure that NYE celebrations would bring.

@bumbleymummy

We can’t afford to keep locking down and paying furlough. Scotland wales and NI need to start backtracking on their restrictions with the latest news of it being milder. Hospitality is dying.

Hospitality is dying

It's not, but even if it was, that's better than people dying. Other business/jobs will start up.

I'm not sure what Whitty & co are saying, haven't heard for a few days, but they're a tad more informed/science based than a bunch of back benchers!!

You meant it rhetorically, but it’s a good point to raise.

You are spot on that Whitty and are surely more informed of the science. But the balance includes social and economic factors too.

We can argue whether MPs are best constituted to take on that balancing act. But absent Whitty and co doing it themselves, someone needs to. MPs are better informed because they integrate those concerns into an overall picture.

Thanks for helping make the point.

@Tealightsandd

And however hard, it's easier to build new businesses than it is to bring people back to life. It's also easier to rebuild a business than it is to stop being too disabled to work.

Yep, but this pandemic has shown one thing is definitely true 'you can't argue with stupid'.

Yep, but this pandemic has shown one thing is definitely true 'you can't argue with stupid'.

Oh dear. I don’t think this makes you sound as you think it does.

You are missing the whole picture and it shows in your attempt to insult.

Luckily we don’t need to rely on this kind of stuff.

Flu is minimal, let’s look at Omicron as this winter’s ‘Flu replacement’ & we’ll be grand.

UK gov needs to decide whether it believes in vaccines & natural immunity or be held hostage to modeling.

You cannot impose restrictions on a triple jabbed, previously highly infected population against a new pussycat variant.

It’s now or never, how far do we need the chips stacking in our favour?

Hospitality is dying despite the restrictions as people make their own judgement calls

And the less faith people have in the politicians the more that will happen

*Hospitality is dying

It's not, but even if it was, that's better than people dying.*

I guess this depends on the costs to society of saving these lives. The costs are not just financial but also involve health costs and could include deaths as a result of closing down businesses and rising debt levels.

@bordermidgebite

Hospitality is dying despite the restrictions as people make their own judgement calls

And the less faith people have in the politicians the more that will happen

This is due to media messaging

Lift this and people will change again

So you are suggest that government control what and how the media can report ?!?

To trick people into taking risks they would not be comfortable doing if they had facts to hand ?

State controlled media is never a good idea

Facts like every nhs worker I know is on their knees and prone to random bouts of tears because they are mentally and physically exhausted