Govt plans re unvaccinated feels like a change is afoot

[whenwillthemadnessend]

Anyone noticed the govt and news sources seem to be covering more and more stories regarding the unvaccinated (by choice)
I feel they might be ramping up support for restrictions for unvaccinated people.
It's feel very much like propaganda and warm up the masses.
Anyone agree or noticed this in the last 3/4 days?

The question also boils down to 1) do we keep the unvaxxed at home/away from others or 2) do we keep the vulnerable/CEV at home/away from others for a very long time.
I do not understand anyone who would choose 2 over 1 when 2 have less choice in the matter.
The usual arguments about NHS underfunded, people bringing obesity/smoking on themselves leading to 2) etc won’t fly. Having a vaccine is quick and straightforward. Plus even the best funded healthcare systems in the world are struggling.

I'm not jabbed, don't feel able to be jabbed, and do not know what I would do. It feels like the world is closing in around me. If this is happened I don't think I would be able to see a way out and life would not be worth living. Covid has ruined my life.

Cornettoninja

Yes this is just among people I know personally not in anyway connected to actual data of booster uptake and additionally the people I’m referring to are only just eligible now the programme has opened up.

@Incognito22333

The question also boils down to 1) do we keep the unvaxxed at home/away from others or 2) do we keep the vulnerable/CEV at home/away from others for a very long time. I do not understand anyone who would choose 2 over 1 when 2 have less choice in the matter. The usual arguments about NHS underfunded, people bringing obesity/smoking on themselves leading to 2) etc won’t fly. Having a vaccine is quick and straightforward. Plus even the best funded healthcare systems in the world are struggling.

I’m a question posed to CEV on another thread most confirmed that they have to isolate due to other illness anyway.

In a

@Incognito22333 your option 1 would also need to include those that haven’t had booster as latest government data shows more cases per 100,000 in the double jabbed compared to the unvaccinated. Number of studies showing viral load similar between the two groups as well.

How about 3) regular boosters for vulnerable/ecv, anyone symptomatically poorly stays home with appropriate sick pay policies in place and good hygiene practices.

@Incognito22333

The question also boils down to 1) do we keep the unvaxxed at home/away from others or 2) do we keep the vulnerable/CEV at home/away from others for a very long time. I do not understand anyone who would choose 2 over 1 when 2 have less choice in the matter. The usual arguments about NHS underfunded, people bringing obesity/smoking on themselves leading to 2) etc won’t fly. Having a vaccine is quick and straightforward. Plus even the best funded healthcare systems in the world are struggling.

Good points.

I have lots of sympathy for those who are CEV and for whom the vaccine doesn't work/cannot have it due to health reasons that the idiots that could helped but chose not to. YoutTube conspiracy twats have a lot to answer for and some people believe all the crap they read/see/hear but ignore the scientists who have actually spent all their lives working in the field. Dumb really.

@Awakened22 where is this data ?

@Incognito22333

The question also boils down to 1) do we keep the unvaxxed at home/away from others or 2) do we keep the vulnerable/CEV at home/away from others for a very long time. I do not understand anyone who would choose 2 over 1 when 2 have less choice in the matter. The usual arguments about NHS underfunded, people bringing obesity/smoking on themselves leading to 2) etc won’t fly. Having a vaccine is quick and straightforward. Plus even the best funded healthcare systems in the world are struggling.

If it doesn't stop transmission (it's doesn't) then 1 is a waste of time and 2 is your safe option. That's coming from someone who actually signed up to take this as a experimental jab!

The only hope for the vulnerable is antivirals which are starting to come to market.

To all those with a true needle phobia, what about a program where you sign up to take the vaccine discuss it with a HCP that you consent then we employ army/bouncers to restrain whilst it done. Yes it wouldn't be pleasant but would that not be a viable option for a lot of people. I faint at the site of the needle in my arm I always say don't talk to me just do it whilst I look the other way, once the nurse talked I looked over let's just says she never spoke to me again until it's out.

@bumbleymummy if you want to compete with the people you know for a Darwin Award, you’re very welcome. But do it in your own lane without impacting on the rest of us please!

@Cornettoninja not sure why people make statements without actual data rather than taking from them around them

This is an excellent article on the subject.
It discusses the reaction of the US left but is pertinent here too.

To all those with a true needle phobia, what about a program where you sign up to take the vaccine discuss it with a HCP that you consent then we employ army/bouncers to restrain whilst it done. Yes it wouldn't be pleasant but would that not be a viable option for a lot of people. I faint at the site of the needle in my arm I always say don't talk to me just do it whilst I look the other way, once the nurse talked I looked over let's just says she never spoke to me again until it's out

No, just no. What a terrible idea. Some people have a needle phobia because your idea has actually happened to them!

How about 3) regular boosters for vulnerable/ecv, anyone symptomatically poorly stays home with appropriate sick pay policies in place and good hygiene practices.

Yep, sounds like most sensible option.

discuss it with a HCP that you consent then we employ army/bouncers to restrain whilst it done

I don't personally have a needle phobia but what you have described would likely cause huge further trauma.

@worriedatthemoment

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1041593/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-50.pdf

Page 39. There are caveats in the data which I’ll paste below and this is clearly an evolving picture. The benefit of vaccine in preventing serious illness/hospitalization for those at risk is also clear.

The case rates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations are unadjusted crude rates that do not take into account underlying statistical biases in the data and there are likely to be systematic differences between these 2 population groups. For example:
• people who are fully vaccinated may be more health conscious and therefore more likely to get tested for COVID-19 and so more likely to be identified as a case (based on the data provided by the NHS Test and Trace)
• many of those who were at the head of the queue for vaccination are those at higher risk from COVID-19 due to their age, their occupation, their family circumstances or because of underlying health issues
• people who are fully vaccinated and people who are unvaccinated may behave differently, particularly with regard to social interactions and therefore may have differing levels of exposure to COVID-19
• people who have never been vaccinated are more likely to have caught COVID-19 in the weeks or months before the period of the cases covered in the report. This gives them some natural immunity to the virus for a few months which may have contributed to a lower case rate in the past few weeks

@vickyc90 getting sick of posters trotting out 'it doesn't stop transmission...'

It doesn't PREVENT every instance of transmission.

Does it greatly reduce it? Yes.

@MaxNormal

discuss it with a HCP that you consent then we employ army/bouncers to restrain whilst it done

I don't personally have a needle phobia but what you have described would likely cause huge further trauma.

The second you try to wiggle away, get violent or even yell 'no', no one would be allowed to inject you. It would be too dangerous, not to mention unethical.

The very thought of this, and the fact someone thinks it is a solution to needle phobia, is making me sick. What the fuck is wrong with people?

No pinning people down to get the vaccine please! That’s taking it too fat

*far

[quote EmmaOvary]@vickyc90 getting sick of posters trotting out 'it doesn't stop transmission...'

It doesn't PREVENT every instance of transmission.

Does it greatly reduce it? Yes. [/quote]
“ Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts.”

www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

Also from recent Imperial article irt infection:

“ Depending on the estimates used for vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic infection from the Delta variant, this translates into vaccine effectiveness estimates against symptomatic Omicron infection of between 0% and 20% after two doses, and between 55% and 80% after a booster dose. Similar estimates were obtained using genotype data, albeit with greater uncertainty.”

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/omicron-largely-evades-immunity-from-past/

‘The vaccine is an instant solution’

Maybe, but if somebody healthy doesn’t want it they still really shouldn’t be forced to.

Maybe on the day we make the vax mandatory, we should also bring the scales out & also make it mandatory anybody with a BMI over 25 doesn’t receive NHS treatment perhaps?

We could do with getting those one million admissions per year linked to obesity down ASAP couldnt we?

Fairs fair & all that.

@Dollymantra

No pinning people down to get the vaccine please! That’s taking it too fat

Not really any different to trying to swab a child tho is it and we all think that is acceptable at the minute. We all have different views I know if my husband bear hugged me I wouldn't be going anywhere any time soon and once it was over he might get called a few choice words but that would be the end of it.

@Dollymantra

No pinning people down to get the vaccine please! That’s taking it too fat

Well this already happened to a Scottish care home resident.

@Dollymantra

No pinning people down to get the vaccine please! That’s taking it too fat

Agreed. That suggestion is appalling.