Why do people keep saying the unvaccinated are what’s keeping the pandemic going?

[Keytomyheart]

That would be true if the vaccinated couldn’t catch it and spread it, but they can.

So how are the unvaccinated prolonging this? Because I’m not understanding it.

Btw I am vaxxed, but not decided on booster yet.

@Aishah231

[[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/19/sajid-javid-hits-out-at-unvaccinated-for-taking-up-hospital-beds
Sajid Javid hits out at the unvaccinated for taking up hospital beds]]

I'm pretty sure the Health Secretary knows what he's talking about.

Link fail
Here it is

Sajid Javah hits out at unvaccinated for taking up hospital beds

OK @Aishah231 I have no idea where you got that load of claptrap from.

"They are only testing unvaccinated people routinely in hospital for covid"

Utterly wrong, everyone is tested for Covid regardless of vaccination status so that +ve patients can be separated from ~ve patients. Use your brain, the point of this is not to infect patients that are already sick with Covid on top of their existing health conditions.

"so of course there will be more unvaccinated 'covid' patients in ICU. "

This doesn't even follow on logically from the incorrect point above. There are proportionately more unvaccinated Covid patients in ICU because they are unvaccinated and therefore less protected against severe illness that unvaccinated patients.

"You only have to have it to be a covid patient you could be on hospital for anything"

As above - all patients are tested for perfectly logical infection control purposes.

"and only the unvaccinated are tested - as soon as you are positive you become a covid patient."

For the third time - this is false. If you test positive for Covid then you are a Covid case and as such part of the reported case numbers. It's perfectly possible however to differentiate between those who have been admitted with Covid and therefore have Covid as their primary diagnosis (typically 80-85% ) and those where Covid is not the primary diagnosis (typically 15-20%).

@Aishah231 I was in hospital in September this year for 5 nights went in with gallbladder infection, came out minus a gallbladder. I was PCR tested for Covid 3 times in that 5 night period. No Covid symptoms just routine testing that everyone on the ward got. I am fully vaccinated and have now had booster so you're assertion that only unvaccinated people are tested in hospital is bullshit.

We are on the verge on being locked down again to avoid overwhelm the NHS. We are being nominated with emails in our areas reminding us that in SW London 97 per cent of hospital admissions are not fully vaccinated. Our borough has an appalling vaccine rate. It’s the hospital admissions rather than cases that are the problem now and as unvaccinated are the huge majority of those hospital beds you can see why people are getting fed up. Unvaccinated people defend their rights to not have the vaccine, not have vaccine passports yet seem to not give a shit that everyone will have even the basic freedom of visitors in their home removed due to their choices.

35% health security is talking rubbish?

fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/

[quote boogiebogie]35% health security is talking rubbish?

fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/[/quote]
Depends if that 35 per cent is completely unvaccinated. The 97 per cent figures quoted for our area is those not fully vaccinated with second dose and boosters.

Is it true that 25% of eligible people are unvaccinated? If so, no wonder the virus keeps mutating. The ‘special’ people who think they are above science because they prefer what Alex Jones has to say really should lose their superior attitude.

Vaccination programmes don’t work if the uptake is not high. We’d still be stuck in quarantine all the time if everyone was like them.

@StrawberrySquash

It's only partially the fault of the unvaccinated that it's keeping going. I) the vaccines offer significant partial protection against getting Covid. Don't have it? Can't spread it. II) the vaccines offer 90%+ protection against ending up in hospital. This doesn't prolong the pandemic as such, but sucks up resources that could be better used elsewhere and is knackering and deeply frustrating for the health care workers who have to care for them. III) Omicron and Delta are so infectious that we won't hit herd immunity with current vaccines, even if everyone is jabbed. But we could tick along a lot better than we are now. We are looking at a significant shortage of healthcare and other workers, just because so many will be ill.

Exactly this

I support the right to choose re vaccines. But I am so very very sick of misinformation

@Keytomyheart

That would be true if the vaccinated couldn’t catch it and spread it, but they can.

So how are the unvaccinated prolonging this? Because I’m not understanding it.

Btw I am vaxxed, but not decided on booster yet.

Because the vaccinated are much less likely to catch it. I know many vaccinated people who have had lots of exposure to covid and managed not to catch it. Also the reason that many have already stated which is that the unvaccinated are mainly the ones putting the extra pressure on the nhs.

@Aishah231
Eh? Only testing the unvaccinated? What new conspiracy is this?

I'm not vaccinated.

Had covid back in 2020 with barely any symptoms. Since then been exposed to it a few times and never re-caught it so as far as I'm concerned I've got some level of immunity and that will do for me.

This divide between vaccinated and unvaccinated is getting ridiculous. It's not any one set of people that are keeping the pandemic going, it's Covid keeping the pandemic going. It's a virus, it's what they do. It's nature and it's bigger than us, but we're so far up our own arses we can't see that. So we need someone to blame and the media are pointing their finger at the unvaccinated.

The reality is that the majority of people taking up beds in hospital are unvaccinated because they are already ill and/ or can't have the vaccine.

@HailAdrian

Because of the desperate need to blame someone for something that is out of our control. I am vaccinated but I think the attitudes towards those who exercise their rights NOT to be, are quite disgusting. Quite frankly, it's bordering on coercion.

This

The unvaccinated aren't keeping the virus going, the virus is keeping the pandemic going. But the unvaccinated are the ones taking up a large proportion of beds in ICU, which means other people, with none covid related needs are being pushed to the back of the queue. The whole point of lockdown was to try and protect the NHS, and by default if the unvaccinated are the ones who are vastly impacting the nhs, then yes, they are large part of the problem.

However I'm not a scientist and can only give you my opinion

@thetagrunburg

I'm not vaccinated.

Had covid back in 2020 with barely any symptoms. Since then been exposed to it a few times and never re-caught it so as far as I'm concerned I've got some level of immunity and that will do for me.

This divide between vaccinated and unvaccinated is getting ridiculous. It's not any one set of people that are keeping the pandemic going, it's Covid keeping the pandemic going. It's a virus, it's what they do. It's nature and it's bigger than us, but we're so far up our own arses we can't see that. So we need someone to blame and the media are pointing their finger at the unvaccinated.

The reality is that the majority of people taking up beds in hospital are unvaccinated because they are already ill and/ or can't have the vaccine.

The sheer selfishness of posts like that one take my breath away.

@Waxonwaxoff0

Because they are the ones taking up hospital beds.

Official stats this week showed that 36% in hospital were unvaccinated so that's hardly the majority?

Had covid back in 2020 with barely any symptoms.

Since then been exposed to it a few times and never re-caught it so as far as I'm concerned I've got some level of immunity and that will do for me.

A very risky strategy. The recent studies from ZOE showed that those who contracted Covid with few to no symptoms like you, were much less likely to have antibodies against the virus 6 to 12 months later. Also, don’t forget Omicron is also mostly bypassing natural immunity unlike Alpha and Delta.

Official stats this week showed that 36% in hospital were unvaccinated so that's hardly the majority?

Technically we wouldn’t have stats for this week but if you are referring to the Full Facts report, in the same report which some posters never seem to want to also post on, they also admit that those admitted to intensive care during that same period (which is not this or last week of course) was much higher It’s possible that Dr Jones, Ms Kelly and Mr Kemp had been incorrectly referring to figures for Covid patients receiving intensive or other specialist care,

At the time of writing, we do not have up-to-date figures on the vaccination status of recent admissions to intensive care.

The latest data from the Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre (ICNARC) covers admissions in the months of May, June and July 2021. Page 45 of its report from 3 December shows that about 73% of intensive care unit (ICU) admissions with Covid involved unvaccinated people

And at the time, North East London hospitals had reported 90% of the hospital beds were occupied by the non vaccinated, hence that number used.

but to post again, the rate of admission to critical care with confirmed COVID-19 by vaccination status for patients admitted 1 May 2021 to 15 November 2021 per week shows the unvaccinated rate as being consistently much higher than those with one or two doses of the vaccine.

In a non-derogatory way, the unvaccinated are keeping it going - in places like Africa etc. where they don't have access to the vaccines - they are the unwillingly unvaccinated!

Yes you can catch it and spread it if you are vaccinated, but it's less likely and less serious when you do catch it, most of the time.

The virus has no checks on it to spread and evolve new versions in populations where they haven't even had one jab. All in the UK should get jabbed and we need to help third world countries get jabbed too, to reduce the power of these dangerous new variants.

A very risky strategy. The recent studies from ZOE showed that those who contracted Covid with few to no symptoms like you, were much less likely to have antibodies against the virus 6 to 12 months later. Also, don’t forget Omicron is also mostly bypassing natural immunity unlike Alpha and Delta.

Very risky 🙄 how? I don't live in fear of catching it any more than I live in fear of catching a cold or getting a paper cut. It's been over 18 months since I had it and I've been a close contact of 2 people in the last 3/ 4 months that I spent a prolonged period of time with (one my best friend who I went to stay with for a long weekend and she tested positive while I was there and the 2nd my OH - both vaccinated) who contracted it and I didn't catch it either time.

I'm happy with my choices

Very risky 🙄 how? I don't live in fear of catching it any more than I live in fear of catching a cold or getting a paper cut. It's been over 18 months since I had it and I've been a close contact of 2 people in the last 3/ 4 months that I spent a prolonged period of time with (one my best friend who I went to stay with for a long weekend and she tested positive while I was there and the 2nd my OH - both vaccinated) who contracted it and I didn't catch it either time.

I'm happy with my choices

I literally explained why it was a risky strategy in my post

I literally explained why it was a risky strategy in my post*

If I lived by that mantra I'd never step foot out of the house for fear of catching a cold or tripping over a loose paving stone.

You're suggesting I should be scared of catching it? What I meant was, I don't see it as a risk because I'm really not bothered if I catch it again We are losing sight of the fact that for the vast majority of people it really isn't that bad.

A lot of unvaccinated have had covid and therefore have antibodies, so are very unlikely to catch and transmit. The government completely overlook naturally acquired immunity, despite it being more robust than that acquired from vaccines.

@labtest57

A lot of unvaccinated have had covid and therefore have antibodies, so are very unlikely to catch and transmit. The government completely overlook naturally acquired immunity, despite it being more robust than that acquired from vaccines.

And you are completely overlooking the risk of re-infection and the increased likelihood than Alpha/Delta antibodies aren't going to matter to Omicron.