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A 2-week 'circuit breaker' could be coming after Christmas

834 replies

dancingstars · 18/12/2021 00:31

Reported by The Times and The Guardian which means another NYE stuck indoors...

OP posts:
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13
vera99 · 18/12/2021 07:17

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/two-week-omicron-circuit-breaker-would-ban-meetings-indoors-pdg0bntjt

Two-week Omicron circuit breaker would ban meetings indoors
Boris Johnson is reluctant to toughen restrictions and has insisted that he is not “closing things down”
Boris Johnson is reluctant to toughen restrictions and has insisted that he is not “closing things down”
ZUMAPRESS.COM/THE MEGA AGENCY
Meeting other people indoors would be banned for two weeks after Christmas under plans being drawn up for a “circuit breaker” to slow Omicron.
Ministers are due imminently to present proposals under which England would return to restrictions last seen in April after models suggested that this could halve a peak of hospital admissions that might otherwise break the NHS. However, Boris Johnson has not yet approved the plans and insisted yesterday that he was not “closing things down”.
More measures before Christmas have not been ruled out but Johnson is reluctant to toughen restrictions after the rebellion against plan B this week by 100 of his MPs and the North Shropshire by-election defeat.
Sources played down the chance of announcements in the coming days, with key scientific advisers waiting for firmer data on the risks of Omicron.
Johnson also wants to assess the impact of measures imposed over the past week and is understood to believe that with towns and cities emptying as people become more cautious, there may be no need to tighten rules further.
Government scientists are becoming increasingly gloomy about the outlook without fresh restrictions as 93,045 cases were reported yesterday, the third record day in a row.
Scotland and Wales are re-imposing some social distancing and Johnson spoke to Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford, the respective first ministers, to acknowledge “economic disruption” as people stay at home to avoid infection.
He will hold a Cobra meeting with the devolved administrations this weekend to try to finalise support for the hospitality industry across the UK.
Rishi Sunak, the chancellor, returned from California yesterday to work on the package, with extra help expected to be announced in the coming days.
Officials are now going further, however, and preparing draft regulations that would re-impose “Step 2” of the spring road map out of last winter’s lockdown. This would see indoor mixing banned except for work purposes and pubs and restaurants limited to table service outdoors.
Schools and shops would remain open and there would be no formal “stay at home” order but friends and families would only be able to see each other in groups of six outdoors. Shielding for the most vulnerable would return and weddings and funerals would be limited to 15 to 30 people.
Senior health figures have been persuaded of the need for action after modelling estimated that on current trends daily hospital admissions would peak in January at 3,000 to 10,000. Currently they are about 900 a day. Admissions peaked at 4,000 a day in England last year, pushing hospitals to the brink. However, the SPi-M modellers estimated that a short period of measures similar to Step 2 could mean a peak of between 1,500 and 5,000 a day.
Ministers have yet to formally consider the plans. But some sources said planning was under way to recall parliament next week to debate the restrictions, suggesting that they could be implemented from December 27 or 28.
Scientists warn that waiting too long risks having to move to tougher restrictions. Professor Neil Ferguson, of Imperial College London, said that data on severity would be available next week, insisting: “Time is of the essence. I think if we are going to make additional decisions . . . they probably will need to be made in the next week or two to have a substantial impact.”
Johnson insisted that the government was focusing on booster jabs “to avert some of the more damaging consequences of Omicron”. He said that people should be “prudent” and consider their “budget of risk” when meeting others, as “there is a big wave of Omicron coming through”.

Act now or wait and hope you will not need to? That is the dilemma within government as a wave of Omicron breaks across the country this Christmas (Chris Smyth writes).
A debate is playing out among officials and scientists in Whitehall, with ministers preoccupied by political turmoil. But soon the government has to choose.
Some of the government’s scientific advisers believe it makes clear sense to act now, to impose measures that are “stringent” but fall short of a lockdown in order to ensure that hospitals are not overwhelmed in the new year.
Others feel they cannot unequivocally advise ministers to act. Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer for England, pointed out that until we know how well vaccination protects against hospital admission for Omicron, it is hard to know what to do. The first data on this, and the true severity of the variant, is only expected after Christmas.
Boris Johnson appears to be heading for the second approach. Officials planning for a “circuit breaker” set of restrictions are trying to suggest a middle ground which allows the government to wait and then divide the epidemic into two more manageable waves. But Johnson has rejected such proposals before.
The risk is that the data is bad and, having left it late, Johnson has few options other than a full and protracted lockdown.

peridito · 18/12/2021 07:21

"UK is 90 percent vaccinated. 46 percent of over 12s have had 3 jabs"
Not sure we're up to 90% yet ...

% of eligible ( over 12 years of age)
81.6% two vaccinations
45.8% boosted or 3rd dose coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

neveradullmoment99 · 18/12/2021 07:22

[quote FrazzledCareerWoman]@neveradullmoment99
"Children are 20% more likely to be hospitalised with this variant."

Where did you get this info, please? [/quote]
It was research in Dr John Campbell video on you tube. Note: He was referring/siting to recent research. Not anything to do with him. Up to date research.

DingleyDel · 18/12/2021 07:23

Well we know if it’s been leaked to the press it’s coming. Can’t see how we will avoid new measures after Xmas.

gamerchick · 18/12/2021 07:26

@scandikate

Everyone has their own anxieties and disappointments. It's not helpful to call people selfish. My son is supposed to be having an operation in early January and I'm so worried it will be cancelled, mainly because I have prepared him for it (he's 5). The uncertainty of everything is what I find hard.
I've been waiting for a biopsy since October, got an appointment for the first week of Jan after pestering. I refuse to be called selfish also. It takes a lot for a bairn to be prepared for an operation. It's not as simple as it just being cancelled. Fingers crossed
Florianus · 18/12/2021 07:26

@Youngatheart00

I’m not surprised, not sure what else is going to stop cases getting to 200,000 a day.

The worry is a lot of people are so (rightly) pissed off at this government they won’t comply. I will be, because I’m concerned for health reasons, but by lord january is going to be fully depressing

As reported in the press this morning, the UK Health and Security Agency has withdrawn that 200,000 a day estimate because increased mask wearing and working from home is already lowering the risk from omicron.

Two-week circuit breakers, though, have already proved useless in Wales and elsewhere.

Nellodee · 18/12/2021 07:26

Have I got these figures wrong?

We have about 150000 hospital beds in the uk. 90% are occupied, leaving 15,000 free.

So we could only sustain about 2 days of 10,000 people requiring admission maximum before we start turning people away?

I really hope some of my quickly googled info was wrong here.

RubyViolet · 18/12/2021 07:29

[quote Flapjacker48]@RubyViolet But there isn't the staff - that was the whole reason why the nightingales were just theatre.[/quote]
Sadly l am all too aware that they can’t find the staff. I was expressing a wistful hope for unicorns as a PP said.
It’s such a huge problem and the government seem to be unable to get a grip on it.
In my London borough the district nurse service is running on absolute empty too. Staff illness with Covid only adds to this,.
Come to think of it though, l do hear that there is an available pool of unicorns merely a hop skip and a jump over the English Channel, but we sadly don’t want those European unicorns anymore.

rrhuth · 18/12/2021 07:31

@Kokeshi123

That’s not what medicine is all about. They don’t refuse lung cancer treatment to smokers, heart disease treatment for the obese, trauma surgery for people who injure themselves doing extreme sports and so on. As a society, we are better than that.

The difference is that obesity-related hospitalizations don't surge wildly at a particular time of year, infect HCWs with obesity-related illnesses and threaten to cause the system to collapse. Also, obesity is caused by a bunch of complex causes. "Not being vaccinated" isn't.

I don't much like the idea of triaging either, but it's not actually any more unethical than vaccine passports, lockdowns, depriving kids of education, confining people to their homes or forbidding people from seeing their relatives. We've already done those things. A few years ago, we all would have thought they were unthinkable too. I can remember people whispering in hushed voices on here about the idea of vaccine passports and "no way, that is TOTALLY unethical." And yet, here we are, and they've been normalized, whether that's a good thing or not (probably not).

Trust me, vaccine triaging/billing-for-care will come if the situation doesn't improve. It doesn't exactly make me thrilled either, but inevitably countries will start experimenting sooner or later, unless omicron really does turn out to be a damp squib.

It is very different to the other things you mention, as it would lead directly to death.
Spikeyball · 18/12/2021 07:34

"so it cannot really be said that if one can be done so can the other"

"Yes it can,"

It can't because it will be impossible to police. Unvaccinated people could be banned from venues but there is no way of policing people staying inside and not mixing with others. The not mixing only worked in lockdowns because people chose to comply.

Florianus · 18/12/2021 07:36

Come to think of it though, l do hear that there is an available pool of unicorns merely a hop skip and a jump over the English Channel, but we sadly don’t want those European unicorns anymore.

Trying to take unicorns from countries where they are needed as much as they are here is no answer.

Whammyyammy · 18/12/2021 07:37

@tootyfruitypickle

Well our big family do is on the 28th due to allowing space from school break up so I'll be ignoring any restrictions that exist then since we've all done the sensible thing
So long as visitors driving to you are only doing so to test their eyesight and you serve cheese and wine and your party is under the pretence of a meeting.... you'll be fine
Shadeelane · 18/12/2021 07:38

How fucking dare you. You don't even know me. I am far from selfish. I've worked throughout the pandemic, in conditions others would have refused, unvaccinated, unprotected with zero mitigations while others stayed at home. I've cancelled seeing friends, avoided family, done everything that's asked of us.

My friends are going through a really shitty time as are we and all of us really need some time away for various reasons. They have recently had covid and the chances of us giving it to each other are tiny. I'm allowed to be pissed off that four people in a house together for a few nights may be banned when come January, I'll be back to working with loads of kids who haven't been sticking to any of the restrictions because they never have and never do. Just for the record before anyone says anything, I don't want schools to close and I very much doubt they will.

Shadeelane · 18/12/2021 07:40

Arg the quote didn't work. That was in response to this message:

Danja2010

I gave up seeing my son who lives in Germany for Christmas as we were to drive through France. I have only seen him once after 2 years of COVID restrictions. I also have friends and family who are Drs and nurses. One who works in a COVID ward. They are who I think about when I decided to cancel my Christmas . Not your selfish thoughts of your New Years Eve being cancelled. It is our hospitals and their staff that will suffer from overcrowding with this new variant. Quit being selfish.

PilatesPeach · 18/12/2021 07:41

Are they going to pay those of us who won't be able to work during a circuit breaker?

generalh · 18/12/2021 07:42

@Shadeelane

A January circuit breaker isn't fucking fine. We're supposed to be going away with friends for new year, a trip rescheduled from last year. There's 4 of us ffs. If it gets cancelled again I'll lose my shit. What I can't share a house with 1 other household, all of us fully vaccinated for 3 sodding days cos Johnson yet again decides new year celebrations can go fuck themselves. Then everyone back to work as normal? Piss off. Sorry but this has really pissed me off.
Mys on has been on deployment for 7 months and we are going to see him between Christmas and NY, staying in a hotel. We have also booked to stay in London for 2 nights as a treat for us on the way home. I can cope with the disappointment of the London leg of the trip being cancelled but not being able to see my son will piss me right off. I have worked in school and not caught Covid, having my booster next week and I feel whatever I have done to keep myself safe has worked.
rrhuth · 18/12/2021 07:42

You can't ask unvaccinated people not to work, either.

rrhuth · 18/12/2021 07:44

I have worked in school and not caught Covid, having my booster next week and I feel whatever I have done to keep myself safe has worked either luck or asymptomatic/undetected. Loads of people were just as careful and caught it.

Whichjab · 18/12/2021 07:44

Banning mixing indoors (or threatening to do so) is a crap idea IMHO as I and I know many others are having a late Christmas with our older relatives so that the kids have 10 days clear of school. To encourage people to rush to meet in this next week would be a bad idea.

rrhuth · 18/12/2021 07:45

[quote vera99]www.independent.co.uk/news/health/ambulance-service-engulfed-staff-covid-b1978091.html[/quote]
oh dear, already Sad

Downtown36 · 18/12/2021 07:46

I just cannot believe we are here again.

I feel desperately sad for children who have missed out on so much. Please no one mention how ‘resilient’ they are, they are missing out on consistency and certainty and the ability to make plans and feel excited about them.

I feel desperately sad for businesses who just need time to recover and may well have to shut again. Government support, if any, can’t fix things.

We’ve complied, we’ve been vaccinated. I won’t accept a ban on seeing those I love again. My wonderful Dad died suddenly in November 2020, we don’t know how long we have left and we just have to live in the now the best we can.

Pawprintpaper · 18/12/2021 07:46

@nether

Why not impose a lockdown on the unvaccinated?

My heart just sank when I saw the earlier post suggesting that shielding might be back.

And if it does, then I think we do have to consider locking down the unvaccinated as well.

Because the rationale for shielding was never just to be nice and protective towards those with underlying conditions. It was to stop then filling the hospitals - there are around 200,000 people living with blood cancer and if they all got it in the space of a month or so, and 40% needed hospital, then that's no-one else getting much treatment fir anything - and they won't be just left to die because these are youngish, otherwise healthy people so good candidates for ICU too.

So if it's ok to protect everyone by telling them to remove themselves from society, then it's ok to take measures to keep other groups that are at higher risk of moderate and severe disease than the general popuiation, out of circulation too.

But what about those who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons? Well, those asked to shield didn't choose to have medical reasons either

This is actually a sensible post. Also, many antivaccers I have heard of would span both groups anyway (weirdly some of the people refusing the vac are vulnerable to covid due to other factors)
RubyViolet · 18/12/2021 07:47

@Florianus

Come to think of it though, l do hear that there is an available pool of unicorns merely a hop skip and a jump over the English Channel, but we sadly don’t want those European unicorns anymore.

Trying to take unicorns from countries where they are needed as much as they are here is no answer.

Until we have trained enough new health professionals we are relying on those unicorns. I have unfortunately spent a lot of time in 2 London hospitals accompanying and waiting around during the last year. l witnessed several staff / orientation/walk arounds that comprised of 20/25 shiny new young medics that were not only new to the hospital but new to this country.
Dozer · 18/12/2021 07:47

Dislike the phrase ‘circuit breaker’ used like this. They presumably mean restrictions that they hope will be time limited. Previous such restrictions have been for much longer than two weeks.