@Mindareno
chickenrun
Could you answer this so we can frame what we are discussing:
“just to be clear, your contention is that the unvaccinated make no difference to the pressure on hospitals?“
Full fact say here there is evidence that the majority in ICU beds are unvaccinated:
fullfact.org/health/dr-hilary-lorraine-kelly-90-percent/
And they also say being vaccinated reduces your chances of being hospitalised significantly.
Not to mention the many news articles that come up from hospitals treating covid patients at the moment if you search for it.
Children don't skew the data, because they're included in the overall population number, as are the number of hospital patients - so they are both relative figures. You take the numbers as a whole, rather than chopping them up into groups. The entire population of the country, versus the entire number of people in the hospitals - that way it makes it equal
No because children are not admitted to hospital for covid at anything like the same rate as adults. If you say they are as against an entire pandemic of being told they’re at significantly less risk from covid, cite your data.
89% of over 12s are vaccinated.
Full fact say vaccines reduce your risk of being admitted to hospital for covid.
The unvaccinated are making this pandemic worse than it would be. It could not be clearer.
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I really like that you linked to that fullfact, because it demonstrates the level of misinformation being spread. Don't you think it's interesting that in that post it cites various papers and on screen doctors who have lied on the figure of 90% unvax-d when that was then later debunked by the actual data?
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Fullfact state there is 'some evidence' of a majority of unvax'd in ICU, but where is the data? We need actual numbers, not vague statements, whereas we have the actual data on hospital covid cases with regards to status.
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My contention is multifaceted. Yes, I believe the figures speak for themselves on the impact the vaccine is having within hospital settings, if so many are unwell who are vaccinated. I also find it strange that many double vaccinated are still falling ill and dying, like Dr Ifam Halim who by all accounts seems to have been a happy, healthy family man and was double vax'd. He's not an isolated case either. Why are they still dying and becoming so unwell?
I'll quote another Fullfact piece on covid deaths:
The most recent report from the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) was published week commencing 25 October. Looking at Covid-19 deaths, it shows that currently more vaccinated than unvaccinated people are dying with the disease in England. (October)
"For example, in the over 80s, there were 1,209 reported deaths in fully vaccinated people, compared to 143 deaths in unvaccinated people and 40 deaths of partially vaccinated people, in data covering the period from 23rd September to 24 October."
They're odds I'll take, personally.
You say about children not being admitted to ICU which is true they do much better than adults, but none the less if we look at the population as a whole, in comparison to the population in hospital regardless of vax status it IS very, very similar. If that doesn't raise an eyebrow, nothing will.
Anyway I've shared the insight I've got, anyone who is beginning to question will read and investigate and for that I'm glad and have done my bit.
Good luck people, let those who want to stay sleeping, sleep.