Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

A 2-week 'circuit breaker' could be coming after Christmas

834 replies

dancingstars · 18/12/2021 00:31

Reported by The Times and The Guardian which means another NYE stuck indoors...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
WiseUpJanetWeiss · 18/12/2021 09:15

@Tabbacus

A circuit breakers just kicks it down the road, what's the point? Surely low level restrictions over a longer period are more effective than harsh ones for a short time.
The point is to reduce the number of people requiring medical intervention at the same time, and to reduce the number of medical staff being off sick at the same time so that there's a better chance of that medical care actually being delivered. It's also to give a little more time for the boosters to be given and to take effect, which will also help reduce the numbers.

That's all. Most of us will still get it anyway, but hopefully the consequences will be less severe.

Flapjacker48 · 18/12/2021 09:17

@Justcannotbearsed Sorry this such a middle class comment - just how many people do you think go skiing in France? A tiny proportion of the UK population, hence impact will be minimal.

Cameron2012 · 18/12/2021 09:17

@WonderfulYou

A circuit breaker is fine, I think most people would be ok with that but the issue would be if it lasted longer than the 2 weeks which it probably would.
Hospitality is on its knees. On its knees. A two week circuit breaker is going to destroy businesses, many workers will lose their jobs. And do you know, if I thought it would work I would still support it. But it won’t. The lockdown ship has sailed, people will not comply especially now they have seen the Government won’t comply. So a circuit breaker isn’t ‘fine’, because as a long term strategy it fails.
MarshaBradyo · 18/12/2021 09:18

@Watapalava

we don't need a lockdown. There are 7000 people in hospital. We coped with 40,000 last winter and that was when nhs staff had to isolate as contacts. Now they don't. Most nhs staff have likely had covid.

It isn't doubling every 2 days - 5% rise yesterday! They need to let it rip. If it gets to 40,000 then so be it. If we are not safe after 3/4 vaccines, then when will we be?

You’re right the doubling rate should not be assumed

‘a methodology memo published quietly by the UKHSA on Thursday states it is now wrong to assume that the doubling rate will remain constant, and so should no longer be used.’

Autumndays123 · 18/12/2021 09:18

[quote TameDucksAtChatsworth]@Watapalava

If Mystic meg had a crystal ball and told you that "letting it rip" would cost the life of your loved one and health problems for another, would you still be as ballsy?

Or is it only fine if that happens to someone else?[/quote]
Absolutely. We cannot continue to ruin the lives of millions and destroy future generations to save the few who will most likely be caught if not by this variant, then the next, or the one after that

threebillboards · 18/12/2021 09:19

Noooo!

BenjiMcSchmenzie · 18/12/2021 09:20

@Mummyoflittledragon

Ffs. I hardly have a life due to illness and disability. I’m supposed to be seeing family for new year. The family I didn’t get to see at Christmas. I’ve really had enough now. I’ve been in a body created 10 year lockdown. For most of you it’s been fleeting in comparison. Where is the joy I’m my fucking life? Just a world of fucking pain and struggles.
Same here @Mummyoflittledragon. I’m so sorry Flowers
xxxGirlCrushxxx · 18/12/2021 09:21

Not hearing any rumours yet about non essential retail closing

That would be nail in the coffin for many businesses. No way can we afford furlough again either

I think schools will delay going back in jan though.

lovescats3 · 18/12/2021 09:21

A circuit breaker would buy time in enabling more people to get booster and reduced mixing would reduce spread

Flapjacker48 · 18/12/2021 09:27

The circuit breakers in Wales achieved nothing.

LadyIckenham · 18/12/2021 09:27

There is likely to be a slowdown in the booster programme due to the number of households self isolating. Mine was due on Thursday and I was advised not to have it as DD has covid (not a single symptom, picked up on routine LFT).

Given the case numbers over the last three days, Christmas mixing is already likely to be reduced in any event: we cannot spend it with our family 300 miles away as planned.

So I can't help but think that we really don't have a clear picture at this stage.

SpookyScarySkeletons · 18/12/2021 09:29

Same here @Mummyoflittledragon apart from a Christmas party I went to with my sister I only leave the house for medical appointments.

I'm meant to be hosting my parents, sister and Nana on the 29th for a little Christmas party, buffet and presents. If Boris announces this before that date I will be absolutely devastated.

rrhuth · 18/12/2021 09:29

[quote supermoonrising]@rrhuth
agree it is like a cult, they really believe it.

Some people just don’t want to have repeated vaccines. It’s simply freedom of choice. If the government want to refuse healthcare based on that choice that’s their decision, but they ought to then also deny healthcare for people with a history of smoking. Or drinking. Or engaging in risk sports. Or obesity. Consistency is important.[/quote]
I was referring more to the people who think it is a microchip etc.

I am not in favour of withholding healthcare.

Chickenrun771 · 18/12/2021 09:29

@rrhuth

There was zero false information in Crimson's post. Numerous studies indicate Omicron IS more like a cold for the ordinary person. Hence the very flat death toll in SA (which is largely unvax'd). The commonest symptoms are a headache, fatigue and a runny nose according to BMJ, but are they wrong too?

If NHS are so poorly staffed, why close nightingale field hospitals? Why leave themselves at the point where they're relying solely on hospital beds and discharging other semi-urgent operations? Because they don't have the staff you say? Bring in the military. You can bet where there's a will, there is a way, but in this case the will isn't strong enough, which should - in an ideal scenario - make people begin to wonder as to WHY that might be.

96% capacity on ICU - link to stats please. Googled and found absolutely zero reference for this country. How interesting.

"Wtf does move forward mean", I'll let you know -

It means 750 thousand potential cancer cases have been missed, people are unable to have operations they badly need, the economy is getting more screwed by the day, mental health rates have never been so bad, people are hurting/killing themselves through depression, democracy is being eroded - bills passed to limit protests in London because the gov doesn't like the rising level of dissent, bills being passed in NYC for state to be able to detain you if they "feel you are a health risk" in a medical facility, (someone can come into your home and take you away) and a constant cycle of never ending lockdowns and vaccines that study after study demonstrate have lower efficacy levels than ever against OMICRON.

QUITE FRANKLY IF WE AS A COUNTRY DO NOT STRAP ON A PAIR SOON AND GET ON WITH IT THEN SAY GOODBYE TO DEMOCRACY.

If you can't do that, perhaps go into a dark room and stay there, and let the rest of us get on with it.

TheGonnagle · 18/12/2021 09:30

Fuck that shit. We’ve got a beautiful hotel booked with friends for NYE. If it’s cancelled after the awful year we’ve all had I shall be fucking murderous.

RedToothBrush · 18/12/2021 09:30

This rumour was starting to do the rounds late yesterday, with it first circulating a day or two before on twitter before the Times picked it up. I had heard it before it hit the press. I do believe its well sourced and that the other papers aren't 'just copying the Times' as it has been suggested upthread.

Two-week circuit breakers, though, have already proved useless in Wales and elsewhere

I think any lockdown wouldn't do a lot against omicron if im honest. So I agree generally.

BUT

We have a huge number of cases and there is no way that people will give up Christmas. So Christmas day and Boxing day are going to be massive transmission days between generations.

What you really don't want a week after that is people having more massive parties. Its not going to bring cases numbers down. I don't think thats the hope though this time tbh. The hope is merely to stop the R getting bigger due to New Year socialising patterns, and if it slows it down a little its a bonus.

I will stress that again: the purpose is to stop an already high R rare further increasing over New Year, rather than reducing cases. We will be lucky if it reduces the R significantly at all. And it won't reduce it below 1. I'm pretty sure the scientists are aware of this.

Keep in mind the booster program here. We have a lot of people - particularly young people who wont have been able to get theirs yet. And it takes at least a week to kick in. And if you get infected it means you don't get boosted and instead add to the January problem. This is about helping the booster program. If you want a three word slogan: Protect The Boosters'

The government need to get these two key messages across.

So i do think there is merit in restrictions from the 27th. This isn't a lock down or a firebreak though. Its being sold as that to the media but its actually much more like Tier 2 Restrictions from last year. (Pubs shut at tier3).

We were in tier 2 for a lot time and the effect was worse for pubs and restaurants than those in tier 3 because they didn't have financial support.

I think the Welsh Government announcement that night clubs will close on the 27th (but only nightclubs) is a big clue that this definitely will happen and i suspect nightclubs will also close elsewhere too.

I don't think this will reduce cases so it is going to be deeply controversial. It will only stop it accelerating.

Its also going to cause a political shit storm. Johnson has been put on notice by his own party that if he attempted anything like this he would face a leadership challenge. In all honesty the numbers are that back and the advice he is getting from SAGE is so strong, Johnson is fucked if he does nothing and he's fucked if he does. Politically he is in checkmate - i think thats him gone early next year regardless. So things are going to be hairy from that point of view. But I do think Labour will back him up - they need to go for financial support being a condition of this though (i dont think they will get it - Tories will play hard ball forcing Labour into voting for it anyway in the national interest).

I just feel this is Johnson Final Act. He gets to almost 'fall on his sword in an act of noble sacrifice' and swan off into the sunset with Carrie and the kids. Which will suit his ego, his love of the classics and his lazy arse down to the ground.

The question becomes who replaces him. Its likely to be soneone much more hardline and to the right of the tory party. Which also doesn't bode well for the future.

Will people abide by the restrictions? I think many will stick to them having been 'allowed' Christmas. I think lots won't too. I do think people will still have big parties. But not in hotels and not in nightclubs and not in pubs.

Its infection rates in the 20 to 30 age groups which has gone through the roof in the past fortnight. Ive heard of dozens of people getting infected at Christmas parties first hand. So it does make sense really. This age group don't have huge houses to party in to be blunt about it. We might see illegal raves - but its December so that makes demand for an outdoor one lower and its going to be hard to fix an illegal venue sorted.

So yeah. I think its possibly the very weakest course of action available. I think its probably, on balance, not a dreadful idea. But I think hospitality is going to be shafted.

I had plans to see family on the 2nd. We had to move it to the second because DS got covid. So it directly screws that up and I'm looking for other ways around it as we've not seen them for 2 years already.

Fun times.

WonderfulYou · 18/12/2021 09:30

Hospitality is on its knees.
On its knees.
A two week circuit breaker is going to destroy businesses, many workers will lose their jobs.

What about hospitals?
They are already at breaking point. We can fund hospitality establishments but we can’t magic up more hospital staff.

rrhuth · 18/12/2021 09:32

@Cherryblossoms85

Sunak can't find the money. It's our money. We can't afford more tax rises. There is no magic money tree. Inflation will destroy our standard of living and cause insane shortages. Before you bleat about nasty Sunak, read a few economics textbooks. A lockdown means more poverty for more people. That reduces their ability to "stay safe" pretty substantially.
They have all the money in the world for brexit, which is going to cost many times more than Covid.

There is a magic money forest to pay for brexit.

Chickenrun771 · 18/12/2021 09:33

@Decaffe

I think I will actually slide into depression if NYE is cancelled. I have had the worst year of my life, including infertility and miscarriage, along with work, finance and housing issues. It has been terrible. The one thing getting me through is the NYE we have planned with friends where I am looking forward to being able to draw a line under the absolute hell that has been 2021, and to see in the new dawn with people I love. If that gets taken away… I don’t even have the words.
@Decaffe The only person who can decide whether or not you have free will is You. Not Boris, nor Whitty, nor some man in a suit with a fancy badge. You.
Wakemeuuuup · 18/12/2021 09:34

I'm not saying it's not needed but that 2 week lockdown would include DS's birthday, NYE and my birthday. I'm pretty pissed off about it actually Xmas Angry

BligeMe · 18/12/2021 09:36

Can anyone enlighten me as to valid medical reasons for vaccine refusal? I've looked a bit on the net, and can only see that people with severe allergies may need to avoid vaccines altogether. There can't be that many of them. We are seeing evidence that previously fit and healthy younger vaccine refuseniks are ending up in ITU and worse. If medical treatment has to be rationed, and at the rate we are going it will if indeed it's not already, then the pressure on beds will mean that doctors will have to chose. Presumably (setting age etc aside) they will chose the person that they assume will have the best prognosis? Which will be better if you are fully vaccinated?

99victoria · 18/12/2021 09:36

When are they going to let us know - that's what's annoying me! We have plans for a smallish family 80th birthday celebration on 29th and then we're supposed to be going to a hotel in Scotland for New Year. We're due to travel in 10 days - a bit of notice for us and the hotel would be fucking helpful 😡

Hamjamwich · 18/12/2021 09:37

@Shadeelane I would feel the same. Enough is enough

Chickenrun771 · 18/12/2021 09:37

@nojudgementhere

I don't much like the idea of triaging either, but it's not actually any more unethical than vaccine passports, lockdowns, depriving kids of education, confining people to their homes or forbidding people from seeing their relatives. We've already done those things. A few years ago, we all would have thought they were unthinkable too. I can remember people whispering in hushed voices on here about the idea of vaccine passports and "no way, that is TOTALLY unethical." And yet, here we are, and they've been normalized, whether that's a good thing or not (probably not).

I still think all of the above interventions are unthinkable and should never have been implemented in a civilized and democratic society. I doubt I am alone. Using unethical, abhorrent policies to try and justify something even more inhumane, such as denying treatment to dying people, is not on @Kokshi123 and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Absolutely. It sickens me to my stomach to think I went along with their plans in the beginning. Awful, non-British, non-democratic, ugly, depressive, dystopian state we have found ourselves in. We'll have to drag ourselves out by our teeth.
rrhuth · 18/12/2021 09:37

@Wakemeuuuup

I'm not saying it's not needed but that 2 week lockdown would include DS's birthday, NYE and my birthday. I'm pretty pissed off about it actually Xmas Angry
You are definitely not alone Xmas Sad