Why is it acceptable to be angry with people who don’t want the vaccine?

[Wuishj]

I’ve had both. I didn’t want them initially but after looking into it more, I decided to have them and think it’s the right thing.

But I would never be angry, rude, dismissive of someone who didn’t want the vaccine. I’m finding these discussions very draining - they happen at work, among friends, on the news. Whatever happened to allowing people to decide for themselves as to whether they want to book an appointment and have a needle injected into them?

Honestly, I don’t think it’s the right thing not to have the vaccine but i am astonished at how narrow minded people are that they cannot respect the decision of other people. I think if everyone backed off from blaming other people then they might find that more people DID end up having the vaccine.

Rant over!

@samyeagar

My GP told me they class lateral flow tests as "extremely unreliable, putting it mildly".

Which begs the question of why then are they even allowed for anything? Why are people making any decisions based on them? Why do people take any sense of security, personal or otherwise from them?

They're better than nothing for red light testing (i.e., taking them regularly to attend things you would be doing anyway like going to work). If they catch any true positive cases, that's better than no-one testing at all, as long as there aren't adverse consequences for the person (safe place to isolate, not losing pay etc).

For green light testing I agree they're useless.

What's evident is that people who should be getting a PCR are taking lateral flow tests instead. This is how it's spreading in certain spaces imo, especially the workplace. Someone with symptoms who turns up to the office after multiple negative lateral flows can then suddenly become positive, but Covid has already spread (too many examples of this being the case this week alone!).

I find it weird how unvaccinated mn warriors constantly deny the numbers of unvaxxed in ICUs and dying from Covid, as reported world wide. It doesn't matter where the information comes from, they angrily denounce it. In the Guardian:

The health ministry on Wednesday reported 660 Covid deaths in Poland in the last 24 hours – the highest daily tally since April.

“The overwhelming majority are unvaccinated people,” government spokesman Piotr Muller told private broadcaster Radio Zet.

I feel angry but then really the more i think about it i feel sorry for them. I do believe that being anti vaxx is like or is a cult. Its alluring for people to find a common goal and feel massive sense of community and the feeling of being special or the choosen few who 'know the truth'. Im sure the people who are the conspiracy theories tin hat people dont believe they are. they just think they are the ones in the know and the rest are sheep etc. I can image how difficult that is to let go. They wouldnt want to realise the truth because they are just the same as eveyone else and not special so they continue beliving and spreading it because the truth isnt as good for them. The consequences of that is rest of society suffers and they double down and going even deeper down rabbit hole.

@dogwog

Haven't read the whole thread, but I really don't understand the hysteria over omicron and the unvaccinated. Myself and my family are unvaccinated and will remain so. We had covid because we were unvaccinated in August and whilst it was unpleasant it was not life threatening.We now have antibodies which offer far better protection than from the vaccine - it doesn't actually! - which wanes after a couple of months. Angelique Coetzee the South African doctor can't understand what all the fuss is about. Dr Coetzee based her comments on a tiny base (

@Tootsey11

The people who brought omicron into the UK were all vaccinated.

If every single person in the UK who could be vaccinated was, things wouldnt be any different.

I'm not vaccinated and have no intention of being either. I've had covid, and didn't cost the NHS any money or take up a bed. I test regularly and am fine. Hth with some of the numpties on this thread.

Who is paying for your constant testing?

I don't care if people call me 'selfish' for not being vaccinated.
I suspected from day one that such divisiveness would happen.
Each person is entitled to have an opinion.
I know that I am generally a very selfless person day-to-day.

Chris Witty today “ Whitty is asked how we deal with the 5-10% of the population who are unvaccinated.

He says although those who aren’t vaccinated are very noisy the numbers are also small.

He says that due to weird conspiracy theories and all sorts there are people who won’t get vaccinated.

Unless these people work in places with lots of vulnerable people, the view is fine, he says, and this has to be accepted.

However, he says of the percentage of unvaccinated people, some simply haven’t got round to getting their jabs, rather than being anti-vaxx.

There are four things people want to know, Whitty says:

The disease is a big enough threat
The vaccines actually work
The side effects are proportionate to the benefits the vaccines are giving them
It is convenient to get vaccinated
We have to make sure people’s fears are politely and scientifically addressed, and making it as convenient for people as possible, he says.”

All of us on both sides should try to show kindness and tolerance of the other side.

The Chris Whitty view above is a good one - he accepts in a free society we don't force vaccines on people. I can live with not going to night clubs or the theatre. I haven't had the vaccine. I don't think those who choose to have it are stupid or wicked and nor do I think those of us who have not had it or stupid or wicked.

Yesterday I saw 2 stories about anti vaxxers from abroad , one was a plot to murder a politician because he brought in strict vaccine controls and the other was a set of anti vaxxers who mocked up a sign decrying people who got the vaccine in the style of the sign over the gates of Auschwitz.

how on earth have you made the link that unvaccinated people are going to stop your family members chemo treatment?
These absolutely wildly inaccurate and completely untrue statements are why the countrys at odds with eachother.

@Bexxe perhaps you'd like to listen to this clip of the Chief Medical Officer for the United Kingdom, Professor Chris Whitty, and what he says about the ways in which COVID admissions & treatments in hospitals and throughout the NHS are indeed having a significant impact on the treatment of other illnesses. And that if we don't get a handle on COVID, everything else suffers.

twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1471450662630309893

[quote KaycePollard]how on earth have you made the link that unvaccinated people are going to stop your family members chemo treatment?
These absolutely wildly inaccurate and completely untrue statements are why the countrys at odds with eachother.

@Bexxe perhaps you'd like to listen to this clip of the Chief Medical Officer for the United Kingdom, Professor Chris Whitty, and what he says about the ways in which COVID admissions & treatments in hospitals and throughout the NHS are indeed having a significant impact on the treatment of other illnesses. And that if we don't get a handle on COVID, everything else suffers.

twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1471450662630309893[/quote]
Yes - I thought his statement explained it very very clearly.

"This is sometimes said by people who have no understanding of health at all... and when they say it, it's usually because they want to make a political point."

This is a complete inversion of reality

Goes both ways.

I respect people's choice. Personally I'm double jabbed and will be getting booster next month - have to wait as have covid currently A very mildly!

I've seen a lot of hatred come from those who have chose not to get vaccinated to those who are.

I made a casual comment not aimed at anyone somewhere about how I currently have covid its very mild and glad I had the vaccine as h have some health problems . I received a lot of hate about how well if the vaccine works why do I have covid etc! (We know that vaccines don't stop you from getting it!). Calling me a sheep, uneducated etc.

I can only imagine what Prof. Whitty must think about those who refuse the vaccine for anything other than serious medical reasons. But I suppose he's had 2 years of wondering "WTF" when working with our current PM ....

@KaycePollard

I can only imagine what Prof. Whitty must think about those who refuse the vaccine for anything other than serious medical reasons. But I suppose he's had 2 years of wondering "WTF" when working with our current PM ....

I think someone posted his comments on the 5-10% of people who have chosen not be vaccinated upthread.

He wants people's decisions to be informed by science, not misinformation, but should be respected either way. I'm glad we have someone like him as CMO.

[quote KaycePollard]how on earth have you made the link that unvaccinated people are going to stop your family members chemo treatment?
These absolutely wildly inaccurate and completely untrue statements are why the countrys at odds with eachother.

@Bexxe perhaps you'd like to listen to this clip of the Chief Medical Officer for the United Kingdom, Professor Chris Whitty, and what he says about the ways in which COVID admissions & treatments in hospitals and throughout the NHS are indeed having a significant impact on the treatment of other illnesses. And that if we don't get a handle on COVID, everything else suffers.

twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1471450662630309893[/quote]
We should not be angry with each other.

We are all just regular human beings trying to get through this thing. Some of us are afraid of not having the vaccine and or of those who do not have the vaccine. And some of us are afraid of the vaccine and of the vaccine juggernaut.

I truly think that our anger at each other is misguided and we are allowing ourselves to be divided when we all want the same thing which is for covid to never have happened and to FUCK OFF asap.

Meanwhile there are news reports coming out (again) in mainstream publications about how the origins of the covid19 pandemic are in all likelihood due to not only a lab leak and human error but also dangerous gain of function research.

I think we should be angry with the organisations and people that have allowed this to happen. The reason our hospitals are overwhelmed with covid is not because people decline a vaccine that they have every right to be nervous of but because covid19 happened in the first place.

I hope as this terrible story unfolds that citizens will come together and demand explanations and assurances that such a thing will never be allowed to happen again. Fighting each other is a distraction from the real fight.

Multiple mainstream press sources are talking about this.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/15/wuhan-lab-leak-now-likely-origin-covid-mps-told/

metro.co.uk/2021/12/15/covid-was-likely-to-have-been-leaked-from-wuhan-lab-say-researchers-15776062/

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/wuhan-lab-leak-more-likely-origin-of-covid-19-uk-parliament-panel-told/articleshow/88310093.cms

www.ndtv.com/world-news/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-leak-more-likely-origin-of-covid-19-says-researcher-2653379

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/covid-possibly-engineered-virus-probably-22472495

I hope as this terrible story unfolds that citizens will come together and demand explanations and assurances that such a thing will never be allowed to happen again. Fighting each other is a distraction from the real fight.

@beachcomber

Pandemics are unfortunately a natural part of living with microorganisms. Epidemioloigsts had been predicting the next novel pandemic - there's a reason countries, public health bodies & WHO had contigency plans in place.

Declaring that this should never happen again is a little shortsighted when it most certainly will, we just need to be better prepared.

If this specific pandemic was due to a lab leak, it is possible to be both angry with the culprits & those that did not take theories seriously and be frustrated with those who refuse any coronavirus suppression policies or insist on spreading misinformation which causes harm.

It's not an either/or. Your post seems like a bit of a swerve tbh @Beachcomber

@riveted1

If this specific pandemic was due to a lab leak, it is possible to be both angry with the culprits & those that did not take theories seriously and be frustrated with those who refuse any coronavirus suppression policies or insist on spreading misinformation which causes harm.

It's not an either/or. Your post seems like a bit of a swerve tbh @Beachcomber

Are you for real?

You know what I'm interested in?

I'm interested in the truth. I want to know why the last 2 years of our lives have been so shitty. I want to know why so many people have suffered and died. I want to know why our economies and jobs are fucked. I want to know why my friend died from covid and why another friend's uncle died within 24 hours of having a covid vaccine. I want to know why I was sicker than I have ever been in my whole adult life when I had coivd. I want to know why I haven't been able to come back to the UK and visit my elderly parents for 2 years.

And that's just me.

There are millions of us who all have our shitty covid story to tell.

We deserve the truth and we need the truth to make sure that this is the first and last time. And maybe the truth would actually HELP to find solutions to what has been unleashed on us. And maybe if people had told the truth in the beginning this could have been prevented.

I'm worn down by the covid pandemic. I have serious fucking covid pandemic fatigue. But I'm full of righteous anger about this and will not be distracted by defeatism or cynicism or infighting or whataboutery.

Let's all lift our eyes off squabbling with our neighbours and get on with looking at the bigger picture. We are being made fools of.

@riveted1

I hope as this terrible story unfolds that citizens will come together and demand explanations and assurances that such a thing will never be allowed to happen again. Fighting each other is a distraction from the real fight.

@beachcomber

Pandemics are unfortunately a natural part of living with microorganisms. Epidemioloigsts had been predicting the next novel pandemic - there's a reason countries, public health bodies & WHO had contigency plans in place.

Declaring that this should never happen again is a little shortsighted when it most certainly will, we just need to be better prepared.

And if this pandemic turns out to be man made??

Because that is where all the evidence is pointing.

Sorry but I think your comment is 100% hors sujet.

@beachcomber

you declaring that a pandemic should never happen again is just demonstrating you don't know too much about epidemiology.

We are in a pandemic that may or may not be due to a lab leak. If it wasn't due to that then the fault could be put on those who encourage human-animal viral transmission.

It is possible to both be frustrated with those who are are denying any kind of coronavirus restrictions & spreading misinformation AND want to hold those responsible for mistakes or potential causes (i.e., the UK government). As I said, is it not an either/or.

As people like WW1 analogies - londonders could be angry with Germany but also frusated with their own citizens if they were refusing to particpate in blackouts or whatever.

I would also argue that it is your comments, not mine, that are "hors sujet"

[quote riveted1]@beachcomber

you declaring that a pandemic should never happen again is just demonstrating you don't know too much about epidemiology.

We are in a pandemic that may or may not be due to a lab leak. If it wasn't due to that then the fault could be put on those who encourage human-animal viral transmission.

It is possible to both be frustrated with those who are are denying any kind of coronavirus restrictions & spreading misinformation AND want to hold those responsible for mistakes or potential causes (i.e., the UK government). As I said, is it not an either/or.

As people like WW1 analogies - londonders could be angry with Germany but also frusated with their own citizens if they were refusing to particpate in blackouts or whatever.[/quote]
I'm not "declaring that a pandemic should never happen again" because I'm not an idiot.

I'm saying that if this pandemic is man made that matters.

I'm saying that if this pandemic is man made it should be investigated.

I'm saying that if this pandemic is man made we should LEARN something from it.

I'm saying that if this pandemic is man made measures should be put in place to prevent such a global royal fuck up from happening again.

For me it's because the majority of people are doing their bit, inconveniencing themselves, dealing with unpleasant side effects etc for the greater good, so that life can return to normal one day, to protect businesses, education and of course the health service and the health of their communities. Those who won't get vaccinated in my experience are happy to reap the benefit of everyone else's actions but without any of the perceived risk. They can only go to the pub, go on holiday etc because others have done the right thing.
The other issue is that they are wasting NHS resources. My dad is terminally ill and couldn't get a bed in a specialist unit to have a vital operation because the beds were filled with covid patients. The admissions manager told me this directly, it's not an assumption on my part. Statistics show that those people in red beds were highly likely to have been there as they were unvaccinated. To me that is incredibly selfish. I wish this spineless government would bring in vaccine passports. The vaccinated should be rewarded for doing their bit

Meanwhile, what we can do in the here and now - what is actually in our power - is to get vaccinated, get boosters, wear masks, distance, all the stuff people want to argue against as impinging on their rights (which seem to include the right to pretend this isn't happening, or serious).