Why is it acceptable to be angry with people who don’t want the vaccine?

[Wuishj]

I’ve had both. I didn’t want them initially but after looking into it more, I decided to have them and think it’s the right thing.

But I would never be angry, rude, dismissive of someone who didn’t want the vaccine. I’m finding these discussions very draining - they happen at work, among friends, on the news. Whatever happened to allowing people to decide for themselves as to whether they want to book an appointment and have a needle injected into them?

Honestly, I don’t think it’s the right thing not to have the vaccine but i am astonished at how narrow minded people are that they cannot respect the decision of other people. I think if everyone backed off from blaming other people then they might find that more people DID end up having the vaccine.

Rant over!

Personally I don't care.

And it's fine if you don't want a vaccination. But the vast majority of people have had the vaccine and it's the endless bleeting of the minority unvaxxed (by choice). So if vaccine passports come in for large gatherings then we all need to suck it up. But no the unvaxxed whinge and whine. That is what gets on people's goat.

There might/will be restrictions if you are unvaxxed (by choice). Accept this quietly as part of your decision.

Then it really won't get heated either way.

It's not just a personal decision. It has the potential to have profound effects on people around them.

Yeah that’s true hadnt thought of it like that @frozendaisy !

I think for me it’s this sort of idea that people who don’t want the vaccine are thick or uneducated. Leave them be! We don’t actually know if vaccines are the right or best way, not with absolute certainty. We are all doing what we think is best overall.

I think the blame game with the anti Vaxxers just makes them more entrenched in their views tbh.

If they don't believe in it enough to get vaccinated then do they believe enough to wear a mask?

In my experience so far ( retail) they don't

So why are they strolling around public places happily in ignorance? Putting the rest of us at risk?

@BoredOfSamphire that’s true, but its still their decision to make, surely? I would be less likely to be around someone not vaccinated as I would see it as more of a risk. But that’s still up to them.

I think it's ok to be annoyed when someone makes a bad/ill informed decision that ultimately has negative consequences for you. I can understand that.

@xxxGirlCrushxxx

If they don't believe in it enough to get vaccinated then do they believe enough to wear a mask?

In my experience so far ( retail) they don't

So why are they strolling around public places happily in ignorance? Putting the rest of us at risk?

@xxxGirlCrushxxx I agree but then if I see someone without a mask I stay well away. I don’t think it’s good to blame or accuse those who don’t participate in guidance. Isn’t that for us - the mask wearers - to assess our own risk and step away from them?

Because until the vast majority are fully vaccinated we will keep going round and round in circles every winter.

Unless you have a medical reason preventing you from having the vaccine, you have a societal duty to be fully vaccinated.

That is why people get cross, because it is entirely selfish.

If you don’t want a vaccine just shit up about it and get on with your life. I’d never ask someone if they have been vaccinated, it’s always someone bringing it up saying they haven't and why. If you don’t want it that’s fine but stop bending everyone’s ear about it.

@Wuishj Actually no. It doesn't work like that. In retail we are sitting ducks. Maskless,unvaccinated approach us, we are often trapped down aisles.....unvaccinated,unmasked also means zero social distancing.... so our personal responsibility then results in telling customers to 'back off' and then it escalates

I couldn’t care less if someone had the vaccine or not. Their body, their choice.

90% of those in my family and social circle who aren’t vaccinated, have always been happy to wear a mask, get tested for Covid passports, etc. The not so respectful ones are very rare.

What I can’t stand is if they try to convince me that I’m an idiot who blindly trusts what the government tell us, I’m going to die in X number of years, I’m just contributing to mass hysteria, I’m giving the government my body for them to experiment with it…

I don’t care if you don’t want the vaccine, but please extend the same to me. It’s nice to ‘worry’ about someone once, but after that leave them in peace. There’s no need to call people stupid, sheeple or dumb for taking the jab either.

@Wuishj

Yeah that’s true hadnt thought of it like that *@frozendaisy* !

I think for me it’s this sort of idea that people who don’t want the vaccine are thick or uneducated. Leave them be! We don’t actually know if vaccines are the right or best way, not with absolute certainty. We are all doing what we think is best overall.

I think the blame game with the anti Vaxxers just makes them more entrenched in their views tbh.

But studies are showing that those with lower education and lower IQ are more likely not to get the vaccine:

news.usc.edu/182848/education-covid-19-vaccine-safety-risks-usc-study/

www.preprints.org/manuscript/202107.0472/v2/download

Getting vaccinated protects yourself, not other people.

If I have close contact with a vaccinated person and an unvaccinated person, it makes no difference to me because I'm vaccinated. I have taken the decision to protect myself from a potentially serious illness.

Not being vaccinated doesn't put other people at risk on a personal level, it just makes you more likely to be very ill with covid.

If other people don't want the vaccine, that's fine, I'm not arsed. Their choice. But they have to accept there may be things they are unwelcome at or events they can't attend without testing and reporting results. They might not be able to go on holidays to certain places. I'm sure when that realisation sets in more people will suddenly take the vaccine.

I think some people need to separate the vaccine and politics.

That’s interesting @User72614643 !! Going to have a read of those links.

Reasons I’m annoyed with anti vaxxers:
Because if everyone eligible had had their vaccine we probably wouldn’t be in the mess we are now.
Because every unvaccinated person requiring hospital treatment is an entirely avoidable cost.
Because people should do things to help others and society and not be so selfish.
Because people should do proper research and not believe conspiracy nonsense on the internet.
Because all the extra pressure on the nhs risks treatment for others being cancelled or delayed.
Because extending the pandemic by not being vaccinated will affect children’s learning and time in school and it’s not fair on them.

@lliitttlepiinkhouse

Getting vaccinated protects yourself, not other people.

If I have close contact with a vaccinated person and an unvaccinated person, it makes no difference to me because I'm vaccinated. I have taken the decision to protect myself from a potentially serious illness.

Not being vaccinated doesn't put other people at risk on a personal level, it just makes you more likely to be very ill with covid.

If other people don't want the vaccine, that's fine, I'm not arsed. Their choice. But they have to accept there may be things they are unwelcome at or events they can't attend without testing and reporting results. They might not be able to go on holidays to certain places. I'm sure when that realisation sets in more people will suddenly take the vaccine.

I think some people need to separate the vaccine and politics.

Being vaccinated protects society in a number of ways. Protecting the NHS. Lowering community transmission. Protecting those who can't be vaccinated. Keeping numbers down so things don't need to close, keeping the economy open etc.

It just simply not true that the decision to be vaccinated only impacts the individual.

you have a societal duty to be fully vaccinated

I think there's a fundamental difference of beliefs around this. Do we value personal and bodily autonomy or a more collectivist approach?

Personally I think that people should be entitled to make medical decisions that are informed and in their own best interests.

If we allow a more collectivist approach in order to deal with covid, we give up our bodily autonomy to the state. Further down the line there might he another crises, say overpopulation, and they can then use the precedence to for instance mandate birth control.

These are important principles. If the majority genuinely believe that the threat of covid is so grave that we ought to cede bodily autonomy to the state and no longer practice medicine on the basis of informed consent then fair enough, but it is a huge societal change nevertheless.

@Adirondack

Reasons I’m annoyed with anti vaxxers: Because if everyone eligible had had their vaccine we probably wouldn’t be in the mess we are now. Because every unvaccinated person requiring hospital treatment is an entirely avoidable cost. Because people should do things to help others and society and not be so selfish. Because people should do proper research and not believe conspiracy nonsense on the internet. Because all the extra pressure on the nhs risks treatment for others being cancelled or delayed. Because extending the pandemic by not being vaccinated will affect children’s learning and time in school and it’s not fair on them.

All of this.

I've not spoken to one single anti vaxxer who actually sounds level headed and has good reasons .

They all tend to say "I'm not an anti vaxxer but......." and have loads of shit reasons for not having the vaccine which actually does make them an anti vaxxer.

But I can't get wound up about it, they can make their own choices and suck up the consequences of that. My priority is protecting my health and that of my family.

Same for masks too, those with lower „working memory“ are also less likely to wear masks.

And it was the same for the EU referendum too, tended to be those with lower education who thought leaving would be a bunch of fun.

It’s acceptable to be angry with them because their behaviour increases risk to the overall population. Like drink drivers do, like people who subject you to passive smoking.

I can understand why people might be angry. For example if your colleague isn’t vaccinated and has to self-isolate whenever they come into contact with covid, and you have to pick up the slack for them at work. Or if your medical treatment is delayed, and you read in the news that your local hospital has wards full of unvaccinated covid patients.

Because the unvaccinated are invariably also anti masks, restrictions, lockdowns etc. While not understanding that the vaccinations prevent the need for restrictions. It's incredibly frustrating.

I know 2 types of people who are not vaccinated.

I have 3 friends that I know of (maybe more) that fall into the first category. It’s come up naturally in conversation and their reasons are maybe not ones I share, but moderate and considered (e.g. fears it would impact their IVF, previous reaction to a vaccine, etc). I probably know many more, but since it rarely comes up in conversation, I’d never know.

The second category is the conspiracy theory nuts. I know exactly who they are because they will not shut up about it.

The latter group includes my aunt who also genuinely believes the Queen is a giant lizard…

Because the vast majority of people in hospital with covid have not been vaccinated and they are spending long periods in ICU beds (that people are normally only in for a few days) preventing other people from having surgery that they really need. They are unnecessarily absorbing already stretched NHS resources and staff and this affects other people who need health care.

Other people are not getting the treatment they need because of the unvaccinated.

@Wuishj

Yeah that’s true hadnt thought of it like that *@frozendaisy* !

I think for me it’s this sort of idea that people who don’t want the vaccine are thick or uneducated. Leave them be! We don’t actually know if vaccines are the right or best way, not with absolute certainty. We are all doing what we think is best overall.

I think the blame game with the anti Vaxxers just makes them more entrenched in their views tbh.

Um sorry... what do you mean by 'we don't actually know if vaccines are the right or best way'? What is that supposed to mean? We do know that vaccines are preventing mass hospitalisations and greatly increased death rates. We know that unvaccinated people are grossly overrepresented in deaths and hospitalisations, and that if they had been vaccinated the resources used on their selfishness could be used elsewhere.

On a population level, we are ALL affected by anti Vaxxers choosing not to get the covid vaccine. Our wait times for other hospital appointments are longer (and thus our chances of surviving things like cancer), schools are more likely to shut, we are spending millions on treatments, restrictions are causing mental health issues amongst the population, businesses are hit with greater absences that hit their profitability, even transport sometimes gets cancelled due to lack of staff so we wait longer. If affects EVERY part of our lives, negatively, because of their selfishness. A few years from now there will be maths to show it and it will be thousands per person.

So don't come on here and post shite, then suggest it's people who just want to live their normal lives that are the problem.

Because most of those who haven't had any vaccines made their decisions on bullshit reasons, and have the nerve to call those who have had one 'stupid' and we 'need to wake up' like they have superior knowledge when in fact all they've fallen for is misinformation