Why is it acceptable to be angry with people who don’t want the vaccine?

[Wuishj]

I’ve had both. I didn’t want them initially but after looking into it more, I decided to have them and think it’s the right thing.

But I would never be angry, rude, dismissive of someone who didn’t want the vaccine. I’m finding these discussions very draining - they happen at work, among friends, on the news. Whatever happened to allowing people to decide for themselves as to whether they want to book an appointment and have a needle injected into them?

Honestly, I don’t think it’s the right thing not to have the vaccine but i am astonished at how narrow minded people are that they cannot respect the decision of other people. I think if everyone backed off from blaming other people then they might find that more people DID end up having the vaccine.

Rant over!

@Wuishj

I’ve had both. I didn’t want them initially but after looking into it more, I decided to have them and think it’s the right thing.

But I would never be angry, rude, dismissive of someone who didn’t want the vaccine. I’m finding these discussions very draining - they happen at work, among friends, on the news. Whatever happened to allowing people to decide for themselves as to whether they want to book an appointment and have a needle injected into them?

Honestly, I don’t think it’s the right thing not to have the vaccine but i am astonished at how narrow minded people are that they cannot respect the decision of other people. I think if everyone backed off from blaming other people then they might find that more people DID end up having the vaccine.

Rant over!

I recommend you start a thread so you can get angry about vaccine refusers 😅😅

It's because anti-vaxxers by choice literally think they are entitled to it both ways.

They don't want to accept the perceived risk the vaccine presents, and ignore the huge body of evidence regarding the safety of the vaccine vs the risk of covid.

But... they are also more than happy to take advantage of the relaxations of restrictions that we have enjoyed solely because of the number of people who have get vaccinated, and whine about their freedoms being curtailed re: large social gatherings/ vaccine passports etc.

The fact is, we live in a society and just with the measles vaccine or whatever, if you want to opt out of that: fine, fill your boots. Stay the fuck at home though and don't whinge that you might loose the ability to go the cinema.

I know a couple of anti-vaxxers. One is a full on lunatic. She can fuck off. The other was TTC (now pregnant) and had genuine concerns about the vaccine. She then conducted some proper research, ignored the fuckwits on youtube and came to the conclusion that she should get jabbed. I can understand why people may have doubts but the answer to that is to educate yourself.

Triple jabbed here.
Quite frankly, I couldn't care less if people don't get vaccinated. I wouldn't feel unsafe or any of that as 1- I'm jabbed, and 2-chances are, they don't have covid anyway.

This is never going going to be over now. Remember when everyone was elated at first with the vaccine thinking it meant normal life could resume. It hasn't and it won't, regardless of how many jabs one has.

I'm not angry with anyone who chooses to have, or not have, the vaccine.

But the fact remains that those who are unvaccinated have a greater chance of carrying and passing on covid so it makes them less eligible for roles and activities involving personal care.

As long as they accept that fact too, then there is no issue.

The problem arises when someone chooses not to have a vaccine but wants to continue working with the very elderly or clinically vulnerable.

Apologies for the extra going btw.

@Plaiceandchips

What about somebody who has health anxiety and is extremely worried about side effects from the vaccine?

The obvious answer to that is to look at the science which says that the chance of side effects beyond a bit of a sore arm is significantly lower than the chance of becoming ill with covid.

@CatsArePeople

What about somebody who has health anxiety and is extremely worried about side effects from the vaccine?

Vaccine bullies will say its only 1 in a million coincidence. Shit happens.

Why are they not worried about the side effects fom covid then if they have such bad health anxiety they want to stay indoors forever fine, but they can't be anxious over the vaccine but not covid!

I do wonder if it's mainly an online problem, though. In my family and social circle there are people who had all the vaccines as soon as they were offered, people who stopped at two, and people who don't want any. Everyone seems to respect others making decisions that aren't the same as theirs and not make a big deal out of it or call them names.

large social gatherings/ vaccine passports etc.

people can live without cinema and gigs.
people cannot live without food.

@CatsArePeople

large social gatherings/ vaccine passports etc.

people can live without cinema and gigs.
people cannot live without food.

Right.. and your point is?

Triple jabbed here.
Quite frankly, I couldn't care less if people don't get vaccinated. I wouldn't feel unsafe or any of that as 1- I'm jabbed, and 2-chances are, they don't have covid anyway.

This is never going going to be over now. Remember when everyone was elated at first with the vaccine thinking it meant normal life could resume. It hasn't and it won't, regardless of how many jabs one has.

So the health service will be constantly full because people won’t have vaccines? And critical operations permanently delayed. Is this what living with it means?

@lockdownhasbrokenme

Really good post above. I also struggle to understand why those with health anxiety are more anxious about the vaccine than they are anxious about catching Covid. Why is the vaccine the worst thing for them? Related to this, I struggle to understand why some posters who seem to be really articulate and (I'm guessing) well educated with objections based on libertarian ideals would place ideology over a potential benefit to wider society from taking the vaccine. Wouldn't there still be a niggling sense that, even though one objects in principle, that if there is a possible health benefit / reduction in hospitalisations / etc, then it's worth erring on the side of getting the virus? After, we compromise on certain liberties every day for the same of living in a society, and that is what is needed for society to work.

But then in practice there must be deeper and stronger reasons behind the reluctance that I just don't understand.

I have spent years trying to get over my severe health anxiety. I was a nervous wreck. I conquered it by keeping away from anything medical ( apart from having my 2 younger children)
I’m not scared of needles at all. I’m scared the vaccine will give me a serious side effect.
I didn’t know how l will live like that again.
I’m a key worker & thankfully haven’t been ill throughout this whole mess / it doesn’t help that everyone l know who has contracted Covid is vaccinated.
How am l supposed to live like that?
I literally couldn’t do anything - paralysed by every tiny thing in my body.
I also found out that if l had taken AZ without question / l was at a higher risk of a problem, due to something unique to my body.

So do you refuse childhood vaccinations too? so much ignorance

Vaccinating your children, in the UK, is a personal choice. This works well, there is significantly higher uptake and less vaccine hesitancy than many European countiee where it is mandated as a condition for school enrollment.

Because by not having it, it is affecting other people’s lives.

Their reasons are ridiculous tbh, many more people have died of covid, many more people have long lasting symptoms from covid, than those that have had the vaccination, many many more!
I’m fed up up restrictions, I’m fed up of seeing people not being able to access health care because so many people can’t be arsed to get a vaccination.

But isn’t health anxiety made worse by keeping away from medical stuff?

@thisplaceisweird

Because the excuses are usually complete crap either 'I'm scared of needles' (grow up) or some rubbish they read from Dr Facebook.

Do you tell people with agoraphobia to grow up too? Or tell people with depression to just 'cheer up'?

So the health service will be constantly full because people won’t have vaccines? And critical operations permanently delayed. Is this what living with it means?

Honestly given the attack rate of omicron this might all be over with quite soon.
Once everyone has had it and is no longer immune naive it will hospitalise far fewer people.

But we will only get immunity from Omricom, not from the next mutation. I know lots of people who’ve had Delta more than once.

Reasons I’m annoyed with anti vaxxers:
Because if everyone eligible had had their vaccine we probably wouldn’t be in the mess we are now.
Because every unvaccinated person requiring hospital treatment is an entirely avoidable cost.
Because people should do things to help others and society and not be so selfish.
Because people should do proper research and not believe conspiracy nonsense on the internet.
Because all the extra pressure on the nhs risks treatment for others being cancelled or delayed.
Because extending the pandemic by not being vaccinated will affect children’s learning and time in school and it’s not fair on them.
I'm not angry per se but can see sense in this. And would add to my anti vax colleague that:
You're in a small office where everyone has made their own informed decision to have the vaccines. You're not morally or intellectually superior, neither are they. Read the room-no one needs to hear conspiracy theories about Bill Gates or be directed to some quack who claims to inject you with vitamins and mark you as vaccinated so you can go on holiday for a huge fee. One of your team was hospitalised in the first wave, all of them had shielding parents and one lost a relative. Think before you judge.

@TheDailyCarbunkle

I'm not vaccinated. I'm happy to talk about why but IME there isn't really any point because no one wants to actually hear it.

In my experience, I think some people get annoyed at unvaccinated people because they present the alternative, the possibility of saying no and they don't like that. They'd rather everyone just went ahead so that they didn't have to question their decision. I am totally sympathetic to that issue and I don't generally discuss vaccination with people like that as they don't seem able to really discuss it. They want to call me stupid and selfish because that allows them not to engage with the reality of it and I'm ok with that.

Other people really believe that if everyone were vaccinated then the virus would disappear or something. That viewpoint is impervious to reality so there's no point in engaging with them. They want to a bad guy and the unvaccinated are it. I think that's easier for them than to realise you can't really 'fight' a virus and a lot of what's been done over the last year has pointlessly damaged everyone for no real result.

There are others who know that vaccination isn't the magic cure it's made out to be but they feel playing along with the illusion that it is is in everyone's best interest. It's a sort of patronising, parental viewpoint. People like that bother me the most tbh. They definitely know better but they believe that being truthful would 'confuse people' (ie people stupider than they are) and so everyone must repeat the 'vaccination is great' line over and over.

I think a lot of people will look back on their attitudes to vaccination and wonder what on earth happened to them. Their responses are understandable given how they've been treated so they don't necessarily surprise me but I don't know if they'll be so forgiving of themselves. I'm sure there will be a lot of self-flagellating Guardian articles in years to come. I look forward to them with bated breath.

It's so depressing to read things like this and see the outcome of our education system--poor levels of critical reasoning, no sense of society, absolutely zero conception of how individuals fit into the world. To take each of your 'points' in turn:

'representing the possibility of saying no'what are you on about? There are loads of countries in the world that lack basic healthcare, personally I'm glad to not be killed during childbirth or dead at 12 with malaria. You seem to think that everyone else is suffering because they can't 'say no' to basic life changing healthcare, which has literally zero negative impact on them besides a sore arm for a few days. Yeah you have the possibility of saying no, but the only reason you would do so is if you're an utter moron who chooses to make themselves ill. Maybe it's some kind of munchausens? Engage with the 'reality of it'? What, the reality of a small pinch, paying 15 quid to Pfizer and being able to go about life. Yeah you're right, we're all clearly just traumatised [eye roll]. They call you stupid because what is coming out of your mouth clearly is.

'the virus would disappear or something'maybe some people do think that to some degree but the vast majority of people I know understand the (very basic) scientific fact that viruses spreading quickly through populations are able to mutate, get worse, re-spread and repeat. If they're not allowed to spread as much they can't mutate as much. It's why unvaxinated (third world) countries are the sources of the new strains. It's why experts repeatedly say that the best way to kill off an epidemic is get high levels of immunity across the world, so we're not getting new strains constantly. You CAN fight a virus. You can effectively kill off a pandemic.

'the illusion'what are you even on about? So previously you were against people who think vaccinations are great with little understanding of how they work, but equally you are now opposed to those who understand the details of how vaccines would stop a pandemic and have the full understanding of the overall benefit to the population and to individuals. Seriously, think about that.

Weirdly enough, I don't think people who took active steps to stop mass deaths will be those who are judged by society in years to come.

It is frustrating when people who don’t want a vaccine are on the brink of causing everyone’s life into further restrictions. I know it’s not as simple as that but you are far more likely to need hospital treatment if you are unvaccinated. You don’t want a vaccine, you don’t want vaccine passports well give what I don’t want to be fltold I can’t see family again.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

But isn’t health anxiety made worse by keeping away from medical stuff?

No, that isn’t how it works. I had to give myself a total ban:block with discussing anything medical with friends / doctors etc… Otherwise you end up marking everything however unnecessary. Most medical professionals are aware of this now - and are helpful when underwent you’ve not been to see them etc…. My health anxiety was triggered by sexual and physical abuse during my childhood- then witnessed someone killed in front of me. I worked so fucking hard to fix it - that you’d never know if you met me. However , under the surface my fear will always remain. Hopefully that’s a good enough explanation.

@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

But that isn't what I said, is it? Someone who is vaccinated is less likely to be infected. Therefore someone who is vaccinated is less likely to be in a position where they will pass it on.

But we will only get immunity from Omricom, not from the next mutation. I know lots of people who’ve had Delta more than once

Indeed, like people keep getting other corona and rhinoviruses as these mutate.
The point is it stops being a major problem once not many people get particularly ill from it.