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Original poster

Why is it acceptable to be angry with people who don’t want the vaccine?

495 replies

Wuishj · 14/12/2021 13:38

I’ve had both. I didn’t want them initially but after looking into it more, I decided to have them and think it’s the right thing.

But I would never be angry, rude, dismissive of someone who didn’t want the vaccine. I’m finding these discussions very draining - they happen at work, among friends, on the news. Whatever happened to allowing people to decide for themselves as to whether they want to book an appointment and have a needle injected into them?

Honestly, I don’t think it’s the right thing not to have the vaccine but i am astonished at how narrow minded people are that they cannot respect the decision of other people. I think if everyone backed off from blaming other people then they might find that more people DID end up having the vaccine.

Rant over!

OP posts:
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LifeIsWhat · 14/12/2021 16:18

@AnkleDeep

I'm angry at their constant whining and total lack of understanding of basic science.

I despair that these people are allowed to vote.

Selfish cunts, most of them.

To call ANY women the C word is totally disgusting.
TheDailyCarbunkle · 14/12/2021 16:21

[quote User72614643]@TheDailyCarbunkle weren't you one of the posters pre-vaccination saying the solution is to just isolate the vulnerable from society and just carry on? To me it seems the tables have turned and now it is the unvaccinated who are being shut out.[/quote]
No, I wasn't. I hope that answers your question.

AlfonsoTheUnrepentant · 14/12/2021 16:23

But that isn't what I said, is it? Someone who is vaccinated is less likely to be infected. Therefore someone who is vaccinated is less likely to be in a position where they will pass it on.

No. Someone who is vaccinated is less likely to have a serious case of the virus. Vaccinations have nothing to do with transmission. The best way to reduce transmission is through wearing a mask.

I expect that MN will delete this again, although it is true, so I might as well say it again.

Wearing a mask is the best way to prevent transmission. Being vaccinated has no effect on transmission. All that it affects is how seriously the vaccinated person is likely to become ill and the serious of the illness.

unim · 14/12/2021 16:23

Obviously it would be different if Covid was a relatively rare disease.

But under current circumstances, anyone who chooses not to get vaccinated is not only increasing the risk that they will catch Covid and transmit it to others, but is increasing the risk that they will need medical treatment of some sort (whether paramedic visit or hospital/ICU). If enough people are unvaccinated and need medical assistance at the same time it will use up resources and prevent the treatment of other medical emergencies.

CatsArePeople · 14/12/2021 16:24

So the health service will be constantly full because people won’t have vaccines? And critical operations permanently delayed. Is this what living with it means?
This has been happening every winter for quite a few years already, way before covid.

Right.. and your point is?
If you argue in favour of vaccine passports, then you are basically a (insert a 20th century disastrous totalitarian regime - pick one or two). Be kind, right?

TheDailyCarbunkle · 14/12/2021 16:24

Your post is a great example of what I mean @Flowers500.

unim · 14/12/2021 16:25

@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

But that isn't what I said, is it? Someone who is vaccinated is less likely to be infected. Therefore someone who is vaccinated is less likely to be in a position where they will pass it on.

No. Someone who is vaccinated is less likely to have a serious case of the virus. Vaccinations have nothing to do with transmission. The best way to reduce transmission is through wearing a mask.

I expect that MN will delete this again, although it is true, so I might as well say it again.

Wearing a mask is the best way to prevent transmission. Being vaccinated has no effect on transmission. All that it affects is how seriously the vaccinated person is likely to become ill and the serious of the illness.

Good quality (FFP2/FFP3) masks can certainly reduce the risk of transmission for anyone, vaccinated or unvaccinated.

But being vaccinated DOES reduce the risk of transmission to others. It doesn't eliminate the risk but it reduces it. www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/

Of course, it also reduces the risk of catching it oneself, which also slows down chains of transmission in society.

Charles11 · 14/12/2021 16:26

[quote WarmWinterSun]@lockdownhasbrokenme

Really good post above. I also struggle to understand why those with health anxiety are more anxious about the vaccine than they are anxious about catching Covid. Why is the vaccine the worst thing for them? Related to this, I struggle to understand why some posters who seem to be really articulate and (I'm guessing) well educated with objections based on libertarian ideals would place ideology over a potential benefit to wider society from taking the vaccine. Wouldn't there still be a niggling sense that, even though one objects in principle, that if there is a possible health benefit / reduction in hospitalisations / etc, then it's worth erring on the side of getting the virus? After, we compromise on certain liberties every day for the same of living in a society, and that is what is needed for society to work.

But then in practice there must be deeper and stronger reasons behind the reluctance that I just don't understand.[/quote]
I know a few people who haven’t had the vaccine and they’d already had covid before the vaccinations. One of them did an antibody test and still had antibodies 1 year and 2 months later.

TheVampiresWife · 14/12/2021 16:29

[quote xxxGirlCrushxxx]@Wuishj Actually no. It doesn't work like that. In retail we are sitting ducks. Maskless,unvaccinated approach us, we are often trapped down aisles.....unvaccinated,unmasked also means zero social distancing.... so our personal responsibility then results in telling customers to 'back off' and then it escalates

[/quote]
Why do you assume no mask = no vaccine?

Tahaniisfine · 14/12/2021 16:30

If people are allowed to have their own opinion on vaccines then people are allowed to have their own on people not having vaccines. You can’t defend one freedom of thought and attack the other.

XenoBitch · 14/12/2021 16:30

I seriously hate the division this whole issue is causing amongst people. Relationships and friendships have been lost over it. I copped a load of abuse from a "friend" who I had known for years because I am not vaccinated. I had a family member try to emotionally manipulate me too.

I dislike anti-vaxxers, and the damage they are causing by spreading misinformation, but I also dislike the people who think they are morally and intellectually superior just because they have been vaccinated. I hate that someone is scared to get the vaccine, for whatever reason, is lumped in with the people who are giving abuse outside vaccine centres and then have a ton of vitriol aimed at them.
No one is going to change their mind if you talk shit at them, or call them names, or the 2020 favourite 'selfish'. If someone is anxious, all you are doing is causing hurt that you can't see because you are hiding behind a keyboard.

MrsPsmalls · 14/12/2021 16:30

Oh I very much care. Selfish people annoy me. I am currently annoyed with me unvaccinated colleague who is off for the THIRD time with covid. She has also been pinged countless times ( but I'm going to guess 10 times) and as she is unvaccinated she can't come to work if pinged. I wish she could be sacked and am sick of covering for her. I have no idea how she has the audacity to show her face on the rare occasion she does come in. Apparently she said to another colleague that she was surprised we hadn't even sent her a get well card this time

Flowers500 · 14/12/2021 16:30

Being an anti-vaxxer is socially unacceptable because of the fact that it harms others and society as a whole. In the same way that it is socially unacceptable to:
--be a tax avoider
--misuse NHS resources
--steal from charities
--refuse your child e.g. blood transfusions for religious reasons
--burgle the homes of the elderly
--commit benefit fraud
All are stigmatised for a reason, and so they should be. I don't see any argument for being 'tolerant' towards people who, through their selfishness, undermine the ability of others to live a decent life.

CatsArePeople · 14/12/2021 16:32

Being an anti-vaxxer is socially unacceptable because of the fact that it harms others and society as a whole.

So you equal bodily autonomy to an actual crime? You seem nice.

Flowers500 · 14/12/2021 16:33

@TheDailyCarbunkle

Your post is a great example of what I mean *@Flowers500*.
And this is a great example of the bizarre tin hattery of the anti vaxxers. You have failed to put into words why you actually oppose being vaccinated. You just post vague woo woo statements about how you see the truth and how people can't connect with their fears, and other bollocks. You appeal to the uneducated and the barmy who love to feel they know some deeper truth.
TheDailyCarbunkle · 14/12/2021 16:37

You equated not accepting a vaccine with burgling the homes of the elderly @Flowers500 so I don't think you have a leg to stand on in terms of calling me barmy.

Flowers500 · 14/12/2021 16:38

@CatsArePeople

Being an anti-vaxxer is socially unacceptable because of the fact that it harms others and society as a whole.

So you equal bodily autonomy to an actual crime? You seem nice.

You HAVE bodily autonomy. How you use it is not criminalised in this case.

You HAVE the bodily autonomy to refuse to work and contribute to society. Most people would agree you should pull your weight and do something proactive.

You HAVE the bodily autonomy to ignore child abuse. Most people would agree that you should report a starving child to the police.

You HAVE the bodily autonomy to set out to systematically shag the husband of every one of your friends. Most people would agree you shouldn't do it.

There are a lot of things that are morally wrong and bad for society, some of which are criminalised and some aren't. However most of them are things that we can agree are negative. I'm not arguing to take away anybody's bodily autonomy, but it's a ridiculous argument for people to feel upset when it's pointed out that they are using it to harm others.

AnkleDeep · 14/12/2021 16:40

@LifeIsWhat

To call ANY women the C word is totally disgusting.

You must be new to Mumsnet. Get used to it if you want to stay.

Frequently used by many.

kikipie · 14/12/2021 16:40

Strange this seems to be a British phenomenon. I live in a country with one of the highest rates of vaccination with virtually no whingeing and anti vaxxers. Also one of the highest rates of mask wearing, ditto virtually no whingeing and anti-maskers

I wonder why that is?

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 14/12/2021 16:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

AlfonsoTheUnrepentant · 14/12/2021 16:42

@Tahaniisfine

If people are allowed to have their own opinion on vaccines then people are allowed to have their own on people not having vaccines. You can’t defend one freedom of thought and attack the other.
There's a difference between thought and action, which has an impact on wider society. I might think "oh [x] is a stupid idea", which is fine. It's my thought.

But if I choose to take an action that has negative consequences that is a different matter.

Refusing to have a vaccine falls into the latter category.

dudsville · 14/12/2021 16:42

I would never be angry, rude or dismissive. Those attitudes don't help, they aren't diplomatic, but think of polio and there you will find the answer to your as to why people don't just blindly accept alternative views to science.

LifeIsWhat · 14/12/2021 16:42

[quote AnkleDeep]@LifeIsWhat

To call ANY women the C word is totally disgusting.

You must be new to Mumsnet. Get used to it if you want to stay.

Frequently used by many.[/quote]
@AnkleDeep -Thank you letting me know.
Still, very disgusting.

Whyevencare · 14/12/2021 16:42

@TheDailyCarbunkle

I'm not vaccinated. I'm happy to talk about why but IME there isn't really any point because no one wants to actually hear it.

In my experience, I think some people get annoyed at unvaccinated people because they present the alternative, the possibility of saying no and they don't like that. They'd rather everyone just went ahead so that they didn't have to question their decision. I am totally sympathetic to that issue and I don't generally discuss vaccination with people like that as they don't seem able to really discuss it. They want to call me stupid and selfish because that allows them not to engage with the reality of it and I'm ok with that.

Other people really believe that if everyone were vaccinated then the virus would disappear or something. That viewpoint is impervious to reality so there's no point in engaging with them. They want to a bad guy and the unvaccinated are it. I think that's easier for them than to realise you can't really 'fight' a virus and a lot of what's been done over the last year has pointlessly damaged everyone for no real result.

There are others who know that vaccination isn't the magic cure it's made out to be but they feel playing along with the illusion that it is is in everyone's best interest. It's a sort of patronising, parental viewpoint. People like that bother me the most tbh. They definitely know better but they believe that being truthful would 'confuse people' (ie people stupider than they are) and so everyone must repeat the 'vaccination is great' line over and over.

I think a lot of people will look back on their attitudes to vaccination and wonder what on earth happened to them. Their responses are understandable given how they've been treated so they don't necessarily surprise me but I don't know if they'll be so forgiving of themselves. I'm sure there will be a lot of self-flagellating Guardian articles in years to come. I look forward to them with bated breath.

Very well said @TheDailyCarbunkle 👏🏻
PurpleDaisies · 14/12/2021 16:44

@kikipie

Strange this seems to be a British phenomenon. I live in a country with one of the highest rates of vaccination with virtually no whingeing and anti vaxxers. Also one of the highest rates of mask wearing, ditto virtually no whingeing and anti-maskers

I wonder why that is?

You must have missed plenty of other anti vax protests in countries all over the world.

Off the top of my head I can think of news stories from Austria, Belgium, Germany, America, France, Australia, Canada…