Why is it acceptable to be angry with people who don’t want the vaccine?

[Wuishj]

I’ve had both. I didn’t want them initially but after looking into it more, I decided to have them and think it’s the right thing.

But I would never be angry, rude, dismissive of someone who didn’t want the vaccine. I’m finding these discussions very draining - they happen at work, among friends, on the news. Whatever happened to allowing people to decide for themselves as to whether they want to book an appointment and have a needle injected into them?

Honestly, I don’t think it’s the right thing not to have the vaccine but i am astonished at how narrow minded people are that they cannot respect the decision of other people. I think if everyone backed off from blaming other people then they might find that more people DID end up having the vaccine.

Rant over!

It's the vaccinated that are banging on / blaming the unvaccinated!!!

@Wuishj

Yeah that’s true hadnt thought of it like that *@frozendaisy* !

I think for me it’s this sort of idea that people who don’t want the vaccine are thick or uneducated. Leave them be! We don’t actually know if vaccines are the right or best way, not with absolute certainty. We are all doing what we think is best overall.

I think the blame game with the anti Vaxxers just makes them more entrenched in their views tbh.

Indeed - lot of people who don't want the vaccines are not uneducated at all - far from it:

"The most vaccine-hesitant group of all? PhDs-A new study found that the most educated are the least likely to get jabbed"

unherd.com/thepost/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-education-group-of-all-phds/

@DynamiteFilledRadish

Putting the rest of us at risk

But how are they putting you at risk? Either your vaccine works and you're "protected", or it doesn't in which case why would they need to have it to protect you? You had your vaccine/s to prevent you being seriously ill. Other people aren't responsible for your health, surely?

Because, as other posters have already pointed out, vaccines reduce the likelihood of infection and reduce the likelihood of serious illness if you do get it, but do not completely eliminate either.

So if you get vaccinated you're less likely to give it to me (because you're less likely to have it), and you're less likely to be seriously ill with it, leaving the ICU beds free for people who need cancer surgery.

Other people are not getting the treatment they need because of the unvaccinated.

This is why most of us criticise the unvaccinated. You, on the other hand, OP choose to criticise the critical. Think about that.

It's a personal decision, but the costs of that decision are born by all of society. And for what - ignorance, arrogance, a need to feel that you know something others don't? That's why it's annoying.

If everyone that can be, were vaccinated, the NHS would be safer for everyone (think reduced waiting lists, fewer cancelled operations, faster ambulance responses), huge amounts of public money would be saved, social restrictions could ease sooner and for longer, each of us would be less likely to get covid ourselves (because transmission is reduced by vaccination), and thousands of families / friends / colleagues / healthcare professionals wouldn't be facing the fallout of witnessing preventable deaths.

It's normal for selfishness to inspire anger in the people affected by it.

I don't get angry at the people who don't get the vaccine for things such as severe heath anxiety or pregnant women not wishing to get it. I don however get angry at uninformed, low IQ anti vaxxers spouting their shite. I guess another way to look at it is would you get angry at a growing number of parents who had their children in the same class as your primary school aged children who refused to vaccinate against childhood illnesses which could potentially cause lifelong disabilities or even in rare cases death? Especially if there were clinically vulnerable kids in that same class?

Yes it’s their choice not to be vaccinated. But it’s the impact of that they don’t get, or don’t want to understand, then they bleat on about SD, masks, passports etc, taking away their rights

But they are taking away the rights of others to live, or work, in a safer environment. Because vaccinations do slow down transmission, make it less harmful. But by not being vaccinated it’s more easily transmitted, people get sick, but only get SSP , and can’t afford to be off sick, or they could give it to a CEV/CV who have to work as well. They could give it to their kids, who spread it at school, who share it with family and so it goes on. And let’s not even start on the pressures on medical staff, who will be expected to help them if they are sick.

They are simply incapable of looking at the bigger picture, they don’t seem to understand that by more being vaccinated we can slow covid to a much more manageable level so life can start to get back to some sort of normal. They don’t understand just how selfish they are being

But as I say it’s the moaning they can’t go to places because a passport is needed etc that’s a direct consequence of their actions

@Remmy123

It's the vaccinated that are banging on / blaming the unvaccinated!!!

No, both are banging on about each other however the most vocal 'bangers on' are the unvaxxed, hence their protests, marches etc. Which I've only seen from the unvaxxed.

@Mommabear20

I'm currently unvaccinated as was worried about getting it while pregnant, and haven't had a good time to get it as DH works a lot and were I too have a bad reaction and be unwell for any amount of time he is need him home to take care of DC and DDogs. I desperately want it but am really annoyed with the amount of people that have made rude comments and the consistent nagging from people to get it.

And when you get Omicron? Do you not think that as an unvaccinated person you're quite likely to have debilitating symptoms? Hopefully no worse than a really horrible cold, but most likely worse and more long lasting than you'll get from the vaccine. Many, if not most, don't have any vaccine side effects except perhaps a sore arm.

It's not 'the unvaccinated' as one group.

It's those who choose not to vaccinate themselves through an informed and educated choice.

It's those who vocally propose unfounded conspiracy theories that the vaccinated are shedding spike proteins, or it's a microchip, or graphene shards, or a bluetooth device, that the whole thing is some illuminati conspiracy, it's connected to a QAnon conspiracy, or that believe Covid is itself a hoax.

It's those who choose not to vaccinate because they believe the conspiracy theories.

Which group are you in OP?

@Mommabear20

I'm currently unvaccinated as was worried about getting it while pregnant, and haven't had a good time to get it as DH works a lot and were I too have a bad reaction and be unwell for any amount of time he is need him home to take care of DC and DDogs. I desperately want it but am really annoyed with the amount of people that have made rude comments and the consistent nagging from people to get it.

So when will be a good time for you to catch Covid then if 24 hours of possible vaccine reaction is too much for you?

You need to prepare yourself for the fact that you are extremely likely to catch Covid over the next couple of months.

A lot of the vaccinated will too but will benefit from the vaccine protection to help them fight it off and reduce their level of illness.

@MaxNormal

you have a societal duty to be fully vaccinated

I think there's a fundamental difference of beliefs around this. Do we value personal and bodily autonomy or a more collectivist approach?

Personally I think that people should be entitled to make medical decisions that are informed and in their own best interests.

If we allow a more collectivist approach in order to deal with covid, we give up our bodily autonomy to the state. Further down the line there might he another crises, say overpopulation, and they can then use the precedence to for instance mandate birth control.

These are important principles. If the majority genuinely believe that the threat of covid is so grave that we ought to cede bodily autonomy to the state and no longer practice medicine on the basis of informed consent then fair enough, but it is a huge societal change nevertheless.

Very well said! Millions of unborn babies were aborted in China since the 80s under the "one child policy" (women were literately dragged into clinics to abort their babies) - all in the name of "for the good of the society". Many men lost their job for having a 2nd baby, let alone the health and mental damage to the mother. This policy only stopped a few years ago. It is very real. Be careful when you willingly give the right of your body away as it will be very hard to get it back. And one day you, your children, your grandchildren will suffer from it.

Because everyone off with Covid at work at the moment is unvaccinated, we are already working flat out with no glimpse of respite, and are now also covering their work for the foreseeable, we work with vulnerable people so the choice to not be vaccinated send to me to lack in consideration for both their colleagues and client group

Where would we be with regard to society's ability to carry on functioning if everyone had decided not to have the vaccine?

The vaccine doesn't stop you from getting covid but it stops you from being extremely sick.
It's also very new and nobody can be sure of the long term effects.
I only got the vaccine as I knew I wouldn't be able to visit my nan in a care home otherwise. I was hesitant, I trust science but I also know these things can take a long time. It feels way too rushed.
Nobody should be forced to have a vaccine that nobody can say is 100% safe in the long run.

Honestly, I don’t think it’s the right thing not to have the vaccine but i am astonished at how narrow minded people are that they cannot respect the decision of other people.

I respect people’s right to make a decision. I don’t have to think that decision is worthy of respect. People make stupid decisions every day.

I feel sorry for people with health anxiety/needle phobia etc who tend to get lumped in with anti vaxxers who’ve “done their research” on conspiracies R us. com.

For me, if this were a decision that had no impact on anyone else, then fine - people can do want they like. However, remaining unvaccinated DOES have an impact on those around you and society as a whole

• people who are unvaccinated are FAR more likely to end up in hospital than those who are vaccinated. That’s using up a bed and resources that are needed elsewhere.
• if too many people end up in hospital, the liklihood of restrictions being imposed again is increased
• if too many covid patients are in hospital then elective surgery, treatments are other critical patient care will be impacted
• if the NHS is overwhelmed with covid - then everyone is impacted. Heart attack? Sorry, no beds. Car crash, sorry no ambulance, no bed. Does not bear thinking about.
• if everyone felt the same way and refused to be vaccinated, we would still be in lockdown, 100,000’s more people would be dead and the country would be bankrupt
• i get the argument that vaccinated people can still get and transmit the virus. But the facts are that they are much less likely to than those who are unvaccinated.

All of these factors together for me shows that everybody has a moral duty to be vaccinated, unless they have a medical contraindication to not be vaccinated.

This is the key for me

'It's a personal decision, but the costs of that decision are born by all of society.'

Absolutely this.

'Personal decisions' should only ever be those where the consequences are limited to that person.

Because the excuses are usually complete crap either 'I'm scared of needles' (grow up) or some rubbish they read from Dr Facebook.

@brokendark my comment was meant to be in response to yours! But I failed

@thisplaceisweird

Because the excuses are usually complete crap either 'I'm scared of needles' (grow up) or some rubbish they read from Dr Facebook.

Genuine needle phobia is worse than “I’m scared of needles”.

@PurpleDaisies

Honestly, I don’t think it’s the right thing not to have the vaccine but i am astonished at how narrow minded people are that they cannot respect the decision of other people.

I respect people’s right to make a decision. I don’t have to think that decision is worthy of respect. People make stupid decisions every day.

I feel sorry for people with health anxiety/needle phobia etc who tend to get lumped in with anti vaxxers who’ve “done their research” on conspiracies R us. com.

Well put. I agree.

There is an aged care facility around the corner from me. One of the carers refused to get the jab, caught Covid then gave it to two of the elderly folk. They both died. She killed them, basically.

If you don’t want to get vaccinated, then stay home. Don’t put others at risk because of your selfishness and stupidity.

Because it feels like we need to all cross a big hurdle and it'll be over. First it was getting through the lockdowns, then it was the hope of the vaccine, now its the hope of the booster.

The reality is it won't happen. It won't be the last person gets fully vaccinated and we're all free but that does seems to be the way of thinking for some people.