8th Dec 6pm press conference

[PurpleDaisies]

Whitty
Vallance
Johnson

I wonder what they’ll say.

[Hearwego]

I understand that the virus mutates. But we were told that since the start weren’t we?
We were also told that after the vaccines, there would be no more restrictions and we would have to learn to live with covid, back to normal life.
Now the government is back tracking.
I honestly can’t believe were all going along with this shambles...

[VikingOnTheFridge]

@MerrilyFcked

Oh, so now people who think lockdown might be a good idea if hospitalisations soar are despicable because of what some evil cunts did to that little boy? How fucking dare you even mention that child to push your own selfish agenda?

Most of them are probably just in denial, but the outcome is the same.

[toomuchlaundry]

Maybe it is despicable that children have to live with adults who abuse them lockdown or no lockdown. Children have been living with 'parents' like that way before COVID came on the scene.

[PrincessNutNuts]

@bordermidgebite

I hate to break it to you

Covid will be around forever but it's impact on hospitals will decline over time , a mixture of vaccination , treatment , mutations and proir infections

At that point you will be able to treat it like a normal cold

It's happened for every virus in mankind's history, this won't be different , sorry to spoil the pity party

It just takes time

I know people say that a lot but it's not true that all viruses do that is it?

Have HIV, Polio, Smallpox, Ebola, Chlamydia?

And I don't see any sign of covid moving in that direction.

It's getting more transmissible and more able to evade immunity, but not hospitalising or killing and fewer of us.

[SivvyPlath]

@TheKeatingFive

How fucking dare you even mention that child to push your own selfish agenda?

His fucking dare you decide that the covid vulnerable are the only vulnerable that matter?

Totally agree with you.

@TheKeatingFive, that is.

[Hearwego]

We should never lock down again.
Look at people who lose everything. Jobs, homes etc.
Children’s education, some of them will be disadvantaged for life now as a result of school closures.
And child/ domestic abuse.
Especially after Arthur’s death , and social workers not going into homes, that reason alone should be why we must never lock down.
Lockdowns cause more deaths that are not covid related, than covid itself.

[vickyp0llard]

We were also told that after the vaccines, there would be no more restrictions and we would have to learn to live with covid, back to normal life.

TBH I think it was really naive to believe that. It's not a sterilising vaccine, vaccines for coronaviruses and flus never have 100% efficacy and have to be tweaked for mutations every year. The only disease we have ever eliminated was smallpox. It was laughable that we could ever get rid of Covid by simply having 2 jabs. The government said that to get people at the time to comply with lockdown, by making them believe there would be a simple endpoint.

[bordermidgebite]

We were not told that after vaccines there would be no more restrictions

We were told that if :when there was a very successful vaccine and no mutations ( which required that the whole world gets the vaccine) then we get back to normal


Because we have only fairly successful vaccines rolled out only to sone countries we have some problems

Actually I think the vaccine we have would have been good enough if we could have managed to vaccinate more of the world, but thats a guess

[PrincessNutNuts]

After Victoria Climbie there was a great initiative called Every Child Matters or something like that.

15 years ago everyone I know who works with children said good things about it.

What happened to that?

[Noeuf]

What does the self isolation replaced by daily testing for contacts mean?

Currently - vaccinated or otherwise exempt - no self isolation except for omicron contacts

• unvaccinated, self isolation for contacts
  

What’s changing?

[VikingOnTheFridge]

@toomuchlaundry

Maybe it is despicable that children have to live with adults who abuse them lockdown or no lockdown. Children have been living with 'parents' like that way before COVID came on the scene.

Yes, obviously, but we know domestic abuse (not just of children) increases in lockdown. And schools are a significant protective factor for children who are being subjected to abuse and neglect. It's easier for them to fall through the cracks when people are keeping out of the way. That's just an inevitable consequence of lockdowns. More stays hidden.

[TheKeatingFive]

What happened to that?

Absolutely no idea, but keeping these children ensconced in abusive homes, with little or no opportunity for outsiders to observe what's going on is going to have serious consequences regardless.

Maybe it is despicable that children have to live with adults who abuse them lockdown or no lockdown. Children have been living with 'parents' like that way before COVID came on the scene

Of course, but lockdown severely limits opportunities for these cases to be spotted and for the authorities to act.

That's hardly rocket science and among the many, many costs of lockdown that it is no longer morally acceptable to simply sweep under the carpet.

[MarshaBradyo]

Lockdown also exacerbates situations which lead to aggression and violence.

[TheKeatingFive]

Lockdown also exacerbates situations which lead to aggression and violence.

Exactly

[BewareTheLibrarians]

@Watapalava @HariboMaroon

Who is advocating for closing schools though? All I've seen on this thread is advocating keeping schools open, so yelling at people for wanting schools closed is a little bit odd as nobody's actually said that.

[Undisclosedlocation]

@Noeuf

What does the self isolation replaced by daily testing for contacts mean?

Currently - vaccinated or otherwise exempt - no self isolation except for omicron contacts

• unvaccinated, self isolation for contacts

What’s changing?

I think the omicron isolation for contacts is being replaced by daily testing?
Which seems like a relaxation that which makes no sense to me alongside other measures tightening

[MarshaBradyo]

[quote BewareTheLibrarians]**@Watapalava* @HariboMaroon*

Who is advocating for closing schools though? All I've seen on this thread is advocating keeping schools open, so yelling at people for wanting schools closed is a little bit odd as nobody's actually said that.[/quote]
A few posts talking about ‘full lockdown’

[herecomesthsun]

@PrincessNutNuts

After Victoria Climbie there was a great initiative called Every Child Matters or something like that.

15 years ago everyone I know who works with children said good things about it.

What happened to that?

It is actually impossible for the state and well intentioned neighbours to prevent every single case of child abuse / child murder.

Horrible people exist, and they often have had horrible childhoods too.

Man hands down misery to man, It deepens like a coastal shelf, etc (Larkin)

Of course, we should do our best to intervene and train HCPs etc. But there will, very sadly, always be more Arthurs. There were over 60 child deaths caused by their parents per year- before covid.

It doesn't necessarily mean that there should never be a lockdown.

It might well mean that going in early and short would have been better than a lockdown lasting months and months with no means for social services to intervene.

It might have been an argument, in fact, for running cases a bit lower and keeping some mitigations, so we didn't risk a longer lockdown.

[Hearwego]

But there isnt anymore furlough schemes so I don’t see how we can have a full lockdown...

[VikingOnTheFridge]

Oh I missed that re Omicron. Good idea, because otherwise the entire population will be in isolation within weeks, the rate that thing spreads at.

[EasterIssland]

@Undisclosedlocation If omnicron is going to be the main variant in a few weeks with 10-20-30k cases a day … imagine how many people would have to self isolate meaning many businesses won’t be able to run again. If this variant isn’t any more dangerous than others (in terms of hospitals) it makes sense to Try to reduce it but not to bring the country to a stand still (specially if they’re negative)

[HariboMaroon]

Yes “full lockdowns” incorporate school closures.

I already have some parents on my social media bellowing it from the rooftops that schools need to close.

It really is a mass psychosis. Do people thrive off drama?

[VikingOnTheFridge]

There will always be Arthurs, but you risk more of them during lockdown. Anyone who is justifying lockdown, either retrospectively or in the future, needs to understand and accept that.

Because ultimately that's what the choice to lockdown or not is. Which groups of vulnerable and which competing interests do you prioritise. The problem is a general failure to understand that this is the basis decisions have to be made on. There aren't any good options now.

[BewareTheLibrarians]

@MarshaBradyo Does full lockdown = closed schools though? I've worked through a "full lockdown" in a school with no masks in class etc, (and I'm sure many who work in factories and healthcare have had to work in similar/worse environments despite a "full lockdown".)

Another school closure would be awful for students of all ages.

[Undisclosedlocation]

[quote EasterIssland]@Undisclosedlocation If omnicron is going to be the main variant in a few weeks with 10-20-30k cases a day … imagine how many people would have to self isolate meaning many businesses won’t be able to run again. If this variant isn’t any more dangerous than others (in terms of hospitals) it makes sense to Try to reduce it but not to bring the country to a stand still (specially if they’re negative)[/quote]
Oh I quite agree.
I’m not in favour of new restrictions and support the move to daily testing. I doubt very much if fiddling about with a few masks and suchlike will have a material difference on figures though and it all seems a little contradictory. Just like last weeks travel measure….you must isolate at home while awaiting pcr test results, but it’s fine to go from the airport via public transport first!
Like everything else the government have brought in….half measures, with poor messaging or explanation. Or in fact, any logic at all in most cases