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Covid

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Boris Johnson set to approve new Plan B Covid restrictions

410 replies

WineGetsMeThroughIt · 08/12/2021 11:11

Just been announced. But what will this entail I wonder. 🤔

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-boris-johnson-minded-to-move-to-plan-b-of-rules-this-week-sky-news-understands-12489880

OP posts:
JassyRadlett · 08/12/2021 13:49

Honest question here - are you a real person or a government chatbot?

Real person who got really annoyed by the amount of misinformation on Covid and vaccines that was being bandied about on these threads, and decided to really focus on challenging that misinformation and providing evidence-based information. I have little hope of persuading most of the people spreading the misinformation to stop doing it, but hopefully those reading it will at least not take false information at face value.

I find your posts really strange & detached from emotion and reality.

On the emotion point, that’s intentional, as I’ve said many times on similar threads. I intentionally don’t advocate particular policies (at least I try not to) or bring emotion into it. I have tried to be really disciplined in just pointing out things (on both sides of the debate) that are factually incorrect. The moment you bring emotion into it you’re accused of twisting facts to suit an ‘agenda’. Things get really nasty - one reason I recently took a fairly long break from the Covid boards. Being accused of being a bot is pretty mild in comparison.

On the reality side, I’m always happy to be challenged on the evidence base for what I’m saying. I’ve got it wrong more than once or have been out of date, and have apologised and updated what I’ve been saying.

It is pretty well established now that the vaccinated are catching and transmitting the virus in large numbers

You won’t find me suggesting otherwise. If you have 50% VE, high vaccine coverage and high overall case rates (which we’ve had pretty much since restrictions were removed) it’s totally expected that the majority of cases will be in vaccinated people.

Boosters look to change that profile a fair bit, as we’ve seen in the case rates for over-70s, but it’s still early days. And of course who knows what Omicron will do, we’d only

and we only have to look at real life examples from Scotland, Ireland, France etc. to see that passports have not successfully managed to control this. Pretending that they are being introduced to slow transmission isn't fooling anyone. It's clearly about coercion and control.

I’m not advocating them or not and I apologise if it came across that way. I was simply challenging the suggestion that vaccinated people and unvaccinated people present the same risk profile in terms of infection and transmission, and therefore the value of the concept.

I’ve not looked at any evaluations of comparing their impact in different countries, but you’ve inspired me to have a dig.

SickAndTiredAgain · 08/12/2021 13:49

That would be fantastic as I don’t want to be near any of the ‘unwashed’ - because of their vaccination status and their intelligence levels

Do you avoid the under 11s due to the vaccine status, or is the intelligence level also required for you to stay away?

Sosijrol · 08/12/2021 13:50

@AntiMaskersAreTwats why do you think vaccination status has anything to do with intelligence levels? Rude.

CaliforniaDrumming · 08/12/2021 13:51

@Lostinacloud I haven't read the 5-11 FDA guidance, but you mentioned you don't want to give it to your teens, so I am talking about the risk for teens. I don't believe Covid is a 0 risk for teens. Anyway, DS has taken it now and I can't get too upset about it.

MaxNormal · 08/12/2021 13:52

Oh well. Good thing I don't get out much anyway.

Slightly galling that it's being introduced as an attempted distraction from Fatboy's fuck-up but on these tiny things do historical events hinge I suppose.

megustalacerveza · 08/12/2021 13:53

[quote Sosijrol]@AntiMaskersAreTwats why do you think vaccination status has anything to do with intelligence levels? Rude.[/quote]
Are you actually trying to say there's no correlation? I've heard it all now.

JassyRadlett · 08/12/2021 13:53

But it’s a good reminder of why I took that break in the first place, because actually that comment based on what? Me saying what the ONS and others say on VE? Has upset me more than is rational.

I’m a big fan of robust debate. I’m just not a big fan of people using lies to justify their positions in a robust debate.

Despite being accused of being a government bot being pretty mild, it’s confirmed that maybe I should just fuck off again and leave people to shriek at each other and spread lies while they’re doing it. Facts Not Welcome Here.

whoopsnomore · 08/12/2021 13:54

@Skysblue

So sick of everything being leaked to the press first instead of announced to the House of Commons.

This is a breach of the Ministerial Code, and the code exists for a reason.

Now a bunch of journalists owe yet another favour to the Boris Johnson gang 😡

The speaker did sound royally pissed off about this just now, though.
MaxNormal · 08/12/2021 13:56

Are you actually trying to say there's no correlation? I've heard it all now

There is but on both sides of the bell curve. Those that fall in the middle, intelligence-wise, are most likely to be vaccinated. The outliers on both ends less so.

fakereview · 08/12/2021 13:58

@Lostinacloud

I am in France, vaccine passports since end of July. I can assure you that they do sweet fuck all against the virus. Cases here now at over 50,000 per day. All it does is create a two tier society and force people to be vaccinated in order to live a normalish life, including your teens and maybe soon your younger children. Even if you are vaccinated but a bit hesitant about vaccinating your DC, it will affect you because you can’t go for a family day out to a museum or theme park of restaurant. I urge everyone in the Uk to resist them.
Wow someone living in another country who doesn't come back to MN to say how awful it is in the UK, how smug glad they are to live in Spain/Portugal/Germany/France/wherever where everything is SO much better and covid doesn't exist!
madmomma · 08/12/2021 13:58

Vaccine passports are illiberal. Very dangerous route to go down.

AntiMaskersAreTwats · 08/12/2021 13:58

[quote Sosijrol]@AntiMaskersAreTwats why do you think vaccination status has anything to do with intelligence levels? Rude.[/quote]
Because it absolutely does Grin

Saucery · 08/12/2021 14:00

@JassyRadlett

But it’s a good reminder of why I took that break in the first place, because actually that comment based on what? Me saying what the ONS and others say on VE? Has upset me more than is rational.

I’m a big fan of robust debate. I’m just not a big fan of people using lies to justify their positions in a robust debate.

Despite being accused of being a government bot being pretty mild, it’s confirmed that maybe I should just fuck off again and leave people to shriek at each other and spread lies while they’re doing it. Facts Not Welcome Here.

Please don’t, Jassy. I always welcome your contributions alongside a few others.
MarshaBradyo · 08/12/2021 14:02

@JassyRadlett

But it’s a good reminder of why I took that break in the first place, because actually that comment based on what? Me saying what the ONS and others say on VE? Has upset me more than is rational.

I’m a big fan of robust debate. I’m just not a big fan of people using lies to justify their positions in a robust debate.

Despite being accused of being a government bot being pretty mild, it’s confirmed that maybe I should just fuck off again and leave people to shriek at each other and spread lies while they’re doing it. Facts Not Welcome Here.

Don’t go. Sod em

I’d rather facts any day

megustalacerveza · 08/12/2021 14:03

@MaxNormal

Are you actually trying to say there's no correlation? I've heard it all now

There is but on both sides of the bell curve. Those that fall in the middle, intelligence-wise, are most likely to be vaccinated. The outliers on both ends less so.

Strange. I know all sorts of very intelligent people...scientists, consultants, barristers, programmers...not one has chosen not to be vaccinated.
Florianus · 08/12/2021 14:05

@madmomma

Vaccine passports are illiberal. Very dangerous route to go down.
I have no objection whatsoever to vaccine passports, but the whole point of their introduction (and of other Option B measures) would be to limit hospital admissions - and that is totally unnecessary at present. Omicrom is not causing additional hospital admissions - in fact, the current daily rate is pretty much what it was back in July. If passports are introduced today, it will be as an attempt to divert attention away from the 2020 Christmas parties, and not for heath reasons.
JassyRadlett · 08/12/2021 14:07

Thanks @Saucery and @MarshaBradyo. And god it’s ironic as goodness knows Marsha you and I have disagreed (politely and constructively I hope!) about a fair few things over the years but at least we can still interact decently.

I’m honestly not sure what people like the PP would have me do. Shout ‘DON’T BE A TWAT GET YOUR FUCKING FACTS STRAIGHT by the way here’s what the studies say about secondary transmission, so actually with Delta you can’t say with much authority that vaccines decrease secondary spread to an unvaccinated person NOW DON’T GET IT WRONG AGAIN.’

Or what?

Sosijrol · 08/12/2021 14:10

@AntiMaskersAreTwats based on what evidence? Have you conducted research on people’s iq levels? Their qualifications etc?

MarshaBradyo · 08/12/2021 14:11

Jassy have we? ha I like your posts and I can’t remember when we disagreed! But I much prefer if you stay.

I think there was a link thing recently but that was a stuff up on my part, The rest maybe I agree with you now.. as I can’t think of anything

Anyway stay, you’re a good voice of reason in the emotional mire

megustalacerveza · 08/12/2021 14:13

@Florianus you can't possibly say that Omicron is not causing additional hospital admissions! It's far, far too early to be able to tell, which is why all the experts and scientists are waiting before they say anything.

There are only a few hundred official infections, which is far too low a number to be making any kind of statements about admissions. The real number is likely to be higher, of course, but still a tiny percentage of all infections. Delta is still dominant here. To get any kind of accurate picture of the severity of this variant, we need to wait for it to spread much more widely and wait and see how many people who are being infected now end up in hospital over the next few weeks.

JassyRadlett · 08/12/2021 14:18

@MarshaBradyo

Jassy have we? ha I like your posts and I can’t remember when we disagreed! But I much prefer if you stay.

I think there was a link thing recently but that was a stuff up on my part, The rest maybe I agree with you now.. as I can’t think of anything

Anyway stay, you’re a good voice of reason in the emotional mire

I think it was on the Australia threads early in the pandemic. I was… emotional 😆
MarshaBradyo · 08/12/2021 14:25

Ha as a fellow Aussie all good Grin

(Ps are you going home at any point?.. should start a thread really if I can be bothered)

IfNot · 08/12/2021 14:26

I don't think there is an intelligence divide between those people who will happily accept anything the government tells them to do and those who won't. I do think there is a class divide though.
I see it in my own life-those people who have been working from home in professional jobs are highly pro whatever-it-takes and very covid scared, and those who have been working in shops or care homes have much more wary of further plans to curtail freedom.
Again, I have never even met an "anti vaxxer" and there aren't even that many on MN, but I have met many people who are not willing to put their trust in a Government that consistently lies, moves the goal posts and fucks over working people relentlessly.
Maybe that's the difference-if you are used to having a very safe and cmofy life Covid is the worst thing that could ever possibly happen to you, and you are used to being on the side of the establishment, so anything other than that seems just mad..

OtterlyAwesome · 08/12/2021 14:27

@MarshaBradyo Please do start a thread... we have a chance to go but everything is changing so rapidly I am now not sure if I should (Partner will as he's going as a critical worker...)

JalfreziAtChristmas · 08/12/2021 14:31

If there's going to be a press conference about this today, shouldn't the time have been announced by now?

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