65% of hospitalisations are vaccinated.

[Twotone]

fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/?s=09

@ichundich are you like a ‘dog with a bone’ about the unvaccinated in general? I think it’s very relevant to a discussion about the best way to reduce numbers in hospital.

@user53782991addresed in the sense that we should be highlighting that BMI is a significant risk factor, even if people have the benefit of youth on their side. It could potentially encourage uptake and reduce the number of people being hospitalised. People with lower BMIs are at lower risk in comparison. (Controlling for all other risk factors)

[quote bumbleymummy]@Nothinbut There isn't a correlation between high BMI and low IQ of course not. I do think that some people maybe think their age keeps them ‘safe’ even if they have a higher BMI though.

Given the figures we have, it’s obvious that there are more unvaccinated people in ICU with higher BMIs (>25) than lower ones. I think that’s worth addressing. When we saw that there were more older people/people with certain conditions being hospitalised we made a point of highlighting their risk - it was everywhere in the media-and then prioritising them for vaccination.[/quote]

I find your wording here curious. Who is the "we" in your post? In your last few posts, you also refer to "we" as if you work in a healthcare or health administration setting.

@bumbleymummy

Never mind. I're RFT now and realise you've claimed to be a doctor, although a doctor of what I'm not certain and I have doubts as high as Everest. I'm not suggesting that you're not intelligent - you do seem to be - but your opinions don't quite match up.

A lower BMI is of course good for the health of the nation.

Those at heightened covid risk (according to the lists defining clinical vulnerability) are those where BMI is over 40. Reducing the number of those over BMI 40 wouid be a gain for population healthiness, just as reducing the proportion of smokers does.

But when a major cancer charity is accused of fat-shaming for pointing out in an ad that excessive weight is a major cause of several common cancers, then I do not think that much headway will be made.

Is it still thread still going on about BMI?

Honestky, why so much angst about BMI when there are so many things that affect voice. Things like vitamin D keel, smoking etc…
Reducing it all to one small thing whilst ignoring all the others is bonkers.

Should we start looking at prevention? Yes of course.
But if the only thing we can do is looking at BMI and give another stick to beat people with of they are overweight/obese, all that because it’s visible and so easy to do, then I would question anyone wanting to go down that route.

If anything, actually testing everyone vitamin D level would be much more efficient. But it cost money. And you can’t have use that ri up of people as a scapegoat.
You could do the same thing with smoking or eating enough fruits and vegs etc etc etc. All the things we know reinforce the immune system and prevent disease, all sorts of diseases.

@PassingByAndThoughtIdDropIn

"There isn't a correlation between high BMI and low IQ"

That statement is literally untrue as demonstrated in many studies although there are of course multiple confounding sociopath-economic factors, and of course many people for whom the correlation does not hold good in either direction.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/lim2.11

Your basic point that most overweight people are perfectly capable of understanding that their weight puts them at higher risk is true I'm sure, but what you actually said is not true.

Let’s remember…

It’s a CORRELATION not a causation…..

I refer to ‘we’ because the information is publicly available - I’ve linked to the data several times on this thread and others.

And cheers for patronising comment. 👍

@LostForIdeas there’s a lot of ‘angst’ about it because people with a BMI>25 are currently over-represented in icu and many are unvaccinated. If we are trying to reduce pressure on icu then we should try to address that directly.

@LostForIdeas yes, testing everyone for vitamin d levels will cost the nhs money and take time, however, telling everyone to boost their vitamin d by taking supplements (along with k2) and getting out for a bit, would not.

[quote bumbleymummy]@LostForIdeas there’s a lot of ‘angst’ about it because people with a BMI>25 are currently over-represented in icu and many are unvaccinated. If we are trying to reduce pressure on icu then we should try to address that directly.[/quote]
This thread is about hospitalisations of the unvaccinated, you said.

You really are banging on re the overweight people (in ICUs) and diverting from the actual topic of the thread, one might almost say deliberately... Look over there!

Hospitals and ICUs wordlwide are experiencing a surge of unvaccinated patients, of all ages and sizes, many of whom are young or youngish. And quite possibly as svelte as you.

@milkyaquausbt the pressing concern to reduce pressure on the nhs? If we have identified a group that are over represented in hospital - unvaccinated with high BMIs then why wouldn’t we address it? It would have been like saying last year - oh look, the majority of people in hospital are elderly but let’s not address that by highlighting their risk and prioritising them for vaccination - let’s just roll it out to everyone at the same time and see what happens.

Maybe at this point it's more efficient to just open up bookings by age rather than for stretched NHS staff to have to identify overweight people - it's probably not even on many people's medical records. Or perhaps everyone should be allowed to make a booking and the person at checkin has to measure each person and turn away those

In the last 4 months in the UK, 235 people under 60 with no listed co-morbidities have died within 28 days of a +ve covid test.

The proportion of those who died "from", as opposed to "with" covid is unknown. The proportion who were overweight is also unknown as it's not listed as a comorbidity.

Each of these deaths is very sad.

Every single day, nearly double that number dies of cancer; same for heart disease (so that's over 200 times more deaths from each of cancer and heart disease during the same time period). Over double that number have died on the roads in the same time period.

Young, healthy people do get ill with Covid, and some seriously so. But the emphasis on getting this group vaccinated is crazily out of proportion with other risks, and the net damage to other areas of healthcare over the last two years is - frankly - criminal.

Just in case anyone is unaware of just how much @bumbleymummy is trying to deflect the discussion - she has posted twice as much on this thread (32 times) as the next most prolific poster (17 times).

She clearly has an anti-vax agenda and is desperately trying to steer the discussion away from the importance of vaccination (across all groups)

And @Squleamish - yes it is an absolute scandal that anti-vax idiots are taking up so many ICU beds so that others with very serious conditions cannot be operated upon.

We should be unbelievably thankful for these vaccines but some people are just too thick to realise it. And these thick people should have the deaths of so many others on their conscious. Anti-vaxxers are despicable

@Scautish

Just in case anyone is unaware of just how much *@bumbleymummy* is trying to deflect the discussion - she has posted twice as much on this thread (32 times) as the next most prolific poster (17 times).

She clearly has an anti-vax agenda and is desperately trying to steer the discussion away from the importance of vaccination (across all groups)

And @Squleamish - yes it is an absolute scandal that anti-vax idiots are taking up so many ICU beds so that others with very serious conditions cannot be operated upon.

We should be unbelievably thankful for these vaccines but some people are just too thick to realise it. And these thick people should have the deaths of so many others on their conscious. Anti-vaxxers are despicable

Seconded.

Misleading people about vaccine efficacy and safety leads to avoidable deaths.

[quote DayKay]@LostForIdeas yes, testing everyone for vitamin d levels will cost the nhs money and take time, however, telling everyone to boost their vitamin d by taking supplements (along with k2) and getting out for a bit, would not.[/quote]
Except we haven't done that either have we?

And telling people to loose weight just doesnt work. What works is appropriate support, which... yep you guessed it costs money....

An ‘antivax’ agenda to encourage uptake of the vaccine in unvaccinated people with higher BMIs? You must have some very strange ideas about what antivax means.

I’ve also emphasised the need to roll out boosters to the elderly/vulnerable groups as quickly as possible because we can see that it’s already having an impact on reducing the number of elderly people in hospital. How very ‘antivax’ of me.

If we want to reduce the numbers in hospitals as quickly/efficiently as possible then it makes sense to specifically target the groups that are most likely to be there.

Still waiting for those examples innocenta. You weren’t able to provide them on the other thread either.

@bumbleymummy

An ‘antivax’ agenda to encourage uptake of the vaccine in unvaccinated people with higher BMIs? You must have some very strange ideas about what antivax means.

I’ve also emphasised the need to roll out boosters to the elderly/vulnerable groups as quickly as possible because we can see that it’s already having an impact on reducing the number of elderly people in hospital. How very ‘antivax’ of me.

If we want to reduce the numbers in hospitals as quickly/efficiently as possible then it makes sense to specifically target the groups that are most likely to be there.

Still waiting for those examples innocenta. You weren’t able to provide them on the other thread either.

Feel free to re-read my explanatory post!

Ummm.. it wasn’t exactly ‘explanatory’ as I said on the other thread. Was pleased to see that you did seem to agree with my idea about trying to encourage vaccination in unvaccinated people with high BMI. Does that make you ‘antivaxx’ now too?

The point is, bumbleymummy, whether or not you are on board with increasing vaccine uptake across the entire population, or whether you are saying that the fatties should get vaccinated so that the antis don't have to. To put it bluntly.

An anti-vaxxer does not support the roll out of a vaccine to the general public. You do not support the roll out to the general public, you want to limit it to those with a high BMI. You are therefore an anti-vaxxer.

You are arguing against the expert opinion - the arrogance of suggesting you know better than them is astounding. sadly it’s likely to be the ill-educated who buy into your misinformation (there is a proven link between those with lower education levels and increased resistance to getting the vaccine).

I think your actions on this thread are despicable, irresponsible and dangerous.

An anti-vaxxer does not support the roll out of a vaccine to the general public.

Oh look. Another definition of anti-vaxx. Where did that one come from? Or is that just your own opinion.

And nope, I don’t want to ‘limit it to people with high BMI’ - read my posts and stop spouting nonsense.

@pointythings did you miss that I’m talking about unvaccinated people with high BMIs? (have never once referred to them as ‘fatties’) And I’m specifically talking about them because they are currently over represented in hospital/icu so if we want to reduce hospital numbers it makes sense to target specific at risk groups -just as it makes sense to prioritise people due to age/underlying conditions etc because they are more likely to end up in hospital.

bumbleymummy there isn't a shortage of vaccine as far as I am aware, so I would want to promote uptake across all of the population, not just a subset. According to the research the risk increases with a BMI over 40 - that's a fair number of people, but how many of those are unvaccinated? Meanwhile I see young, fit, healthy unvaccinated people go down with the virus because they believe they're invincible. It makes no sense. Everyone who medically can should get vaccinated and to suggest otherwise is irresponsible.

@bumbleymummy

An anti-vaxxer does not support the roll out of a vaccine to the general public.

Oh look. Another definition of anti-vaxx. Where did that one come from? Or is that just your own opinion.

And nope, I don’t want to ‘limit it to people with high BMI’ - read my posts and stop spouting nonsense.

@pointythings did you miss that I’m talking about unvaccinated people with high BMIs? (have never once referred to them as ‘fatties’) And I’m specifically talking about them because they are currently over represented in hospital/icu so if we want to reduce hospital numbers it makes sense to target specific at risk groups -just as it makes sense to prioritise people due to age/underlying conditions etc because they are more likely to end up in hospital.

Can you please provide a reputable and verifiable source that shows that 'people with high BMI's are currently overrepresented in ICU' (more so than unvaccinated people in general)?

@pointythings

“At a BMI of more than 23 kg/m2, we found a linear increase in risk of severe COVID-19 leading to admission to hospital and death, and a linear increase in admission to an ICU across the whole BMI range, which is not attributable to excess risks of related diseases. The relative risk due to increasing BMI is particularly notable people younger than 40 years and of Black ethnicity.”

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213858721000899

And I’ve already explained why it makes sense to target specific groups when the aim is to reduce hospital numbers.