65% of hospitalisations are vaccinated.

[Twotone]

fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/?s=09

It's been widely publicised from the outset that overweight and especially obese people were at higher risk of serious outcomes from Covid. There have been numerous anti-obesity/healthy lifestyle initiatives and programmes from governments of all stripes over the years. Whether they have been helpful or correctly targeted or sufficiently funded of course is another matter, but you can't deny that reducing obesity has been an important part of most health messaging over the last at least 20 years.

People can't lose weight overnight but they can get vaccinated.

It's also excellent for othering:

Unlike me, they are fat.

Unlike me, they are old.

Unlike me, they are vulnerable.

Unlike me, they are not special!

Therefore, I do not need to get vaccinated.

@ErrolTheDragon that makes more sense!

And there we have it - one poster deflecting entire thread away from most urgent critical matter. The unvaccinated at a problem. Yes there are other lifestyle issues that need to be addressed in the longer term but it is the selfish unvaccinated that are the predominant burden in the NHS.

The deflection and misinformation from this data-backed truth is a clear agenda.

@rainrainraincamedowndowndown not at all. I think everyone should have a choice, regardless and no one should be ‘othered’ but if, as the figures seem to suggest, there are a large number of unvaccinated people with high BMIs in hospital/ICU then it’s very possible that the message hasn’t quite got through that they are at higher risk, even if they are young. If we are trying to do things to reduce pressure on the NHS as quickly as possible then it makes sense to target groups that are most at risk.

@scautish really not sure why you are taking issue with the fact that unvaccinated people with high BMIs are more at risk than someone with a lower BMI. It makes sense to try to increase uptake of the vaccine in groups that are most at risk.

It makes sense to try to increase uptake of the vaccine in groups that are most at risk.

It does make sense, if we are only talking about personal risks, but we are at the stage that not just the risk for individual, but risk as a whole is the bigger issue. More people need to be vaccinated to get out of this pandemic, that include you too.

[quote bumbleymummy]@rainrainraincamedowndowndown not at all. I think everyone should have a choice, regardless and no one should be ‘othered’ but if, as the figures seem to suggest, there are a large number of unvaccinated people with high BMIs in hospital/ICU then it’s very possible that the message hasn’t quite got through that they are at higher risk, even if they are young. If we are trying to do things to reduce pressure on the NHS as quickly as possible then it makes sense to target groups that are most at risk.

@scautish really not sure why you are taking issue with the fact that unvaccinated people with high BMIs are more at risk than someone with a lower BMI. It makes sense to try to increase uptake of the vaccine in groups that are most at risk.[/quote]
It make a sense to increase uptake amongst the entire adult population, regardless of BMI. As has been pointed out to you before, perfectly slim, healthy, young people can get very ill and even die from Covid. Statistical risk really means very little when it comes down to the individual, and you have no way of looking at a person and be certain that, should they catch Covid, it will only be mild.

Statistical risk really means very little when it comes down to the individual

On one level this is true. For NHS burden, absolutely not. Should we start doing breast cancer screening for men? Precautionary statins for healthy people in their 30s?

@rainrainraincamedowndowndown

It makes sense to try to increase uptake of the vaccine in groups that are most at risk.

It does make sense, if we are only talking about personal risks, but we are at the stage that not just the risk for individual, but risk as a whole is the bigger issue. More people need to be vaccinated to get out of this pandemic, that include you too.

But that’s the thing - the vaccine is much better at reducing risk for the individual. That’s why it makes sense to prioritise certain groups - just as the JCVI did.

@ichundich the purpose is to reduce the pressure on the NHS though. So it does make sense to target the groups most likely to be hospitalised - last year we prioritised the elderly/vulnerable for that very reason - they were the groups most likely to end up in hospital. Now we can see that another vulnerable group (high BMI) are more likely to be hospitalised so we need a clear message to encourage uptake in this group - that will have the biggest impact on reducing hospital numbers.

But that’s the thing - the vaccine is much better at reducing risk for the individual. That’s why it makes sense to prioritise certain groups - just as the JCVI did.

Then why the same JCVI went ahead with booster for 18+ and 2nd shot for 12+ now? From your logic, young people and children won't need vaccine?

Seen as though you like facts, do you have a breakdown on how many in ITU are obese as a single risk factor? Or are you going by the scientific method followed earlier when someone said the photos they saw in the papers were of fat people? I have no doubt its a huge risk factor, as has been known throughout and those with a BMI over x have been prioritised for vaccines; curious though why the entire thing seems to be focusing on fat people?

But they weren’t prioritised. Last year, we identified the groups most likely to end up in hospital and prioritised them because that was the approach that was most likely to reduce the pressure on the nhs - which was what we desperately needed. This year, we can see that another group (unvaccinated high BMI) are disproportionately represented in hospital/icu so the best way to reduce pressure on hospitals would be to encourage vaccine uptake in that group.

And yes, the WHO has been saying for months that we should be prioritising vaccination in developing countries for vulnerable/front line hcps rather than vaccinating young people in developed countries that are low risk.

@cattipuss. I linked to it already upthread, here it is again. I may have been the person upthread who mentioned pictures showing ‘healthy people’ in hospital who are clearly very overweight. That’s not what I was using as my primary source of information though :) it was more a comment on reporting.

@serengtisprinter

Well hopefully the threads after threads about the unvaccinated clogging up beds will stop now.

That diagram demonstrates that a much larger proportion of the unvaccinated are in hospital - so the threads after threads are probably correct.

It would be good though if there was more support for people wanting to lose weight in a sendible and sustainable way with proper MH support if required. Many years ago I attended appointments with the Practice nurse and managed to lose a stone or two. Than the Service stopped and I had 2 bereavements within weeks of each other and of course the weight went back on.
Five years later I needed surgery so I approached the GP for support. I was pretty much told that support is only provided if you don't pay for prescriptions. The hospital Consultant was really vile and basically totally blamed my condition on my weight. I actually had numerous separate risk factors but no my weight was the issue only.
I was basically refused surgery so I went away snd lost the weight. Great it either except I did it Cambridge Diet Style which of course is very unhealthy and post surgery I ended up heavier than before.
So there is a pattern. Repeated again when things were settled in my life. Than regaining.
Losing weight and keeping it off is not a quick fix so right now I am obese again but fitter than before as I go to the gym, do open water swimming and walk ridiculously long distances.
Sorry to derail but it is important to say that losing weight is not as straightforward forward as eating less and moving more and tbh the Pandemic has personally contributed to me moving from overweight to obese. So many reasons fir this of course

@YourenutsmiLord actual numbers in beds rather than proportions are what is important at the moment though. We need to get those numbers down - prioritising boosters for the elderly/making community beds available for discharge(although I acknowledge that this may take time - not helped by firing care workers!) /trying to encourage unvaccinated people with higher BMIs to be vaccinated are probably the most effective way to do that.

It would be good though if there was more support for people wanting to lose weight in a sendible and sustainable way with proper MH support if required.

Completely agree.

@bumbleymummy

But they weren’t prioritised. Last year, we identified the groups most likely to end up in hospital and prioritised them because that was the approach that was most likely to reduce the pressure on the nhs - which was what we desperately needed. This year, we can see that another group (unvaccinated high BMI) are disproportionately represented in hospital/icu so the best way to reduce pressure on hospitals would be to encourage vaccine uptake in that group.

And yes, the WHO has been saying for months that we should be prioritising vaccination in developing countries for vulnerable/front line hcps rather than vaccinating young people in developed countries that are low risk.

Groups are still being prioritised. That's why no one under 50 has been invited for their booster yet, unless they're CEV or it's been 6 months since their second jab.

Groups are still being prioritised.

Yes, I know. I was just pointing out that, based on the same logic that we used last year in prioritising groups to optimally reduce hospitalisations, we should be promoting the vaccine in unvaccinated people with higher BMIs - because they have now been identified as a group at increased risk of ending up in hospital (the targeted approach has reduced the numbers of the at risk groups in hospital that have previously been identified) .

Whilst I agree that high “BMI” increases risk but I feel that some are using this as a deflection because all their other “antivaxxer” agendas for lack of a better term have been debunked in thread after thread and now they are derailing by talking about BMI. The point remains you need to get vaccinated to reduce risk from Covid-19. Obese/overweight people have already been targeted as part of the vaccination roll out.

Why does MN entertain this bullshit from idiots? Threads like this should go poof, immediately.

There isn't a correlation between high BMI and low IQ, most will known they're at a higher risk, and those that don't aren't likely to respond to campaigns to get vaccinated. The fact, based on data, remains that if you look at it proportionately there are more unvaccinated people in hospital than vaccinated. Each to their own if you don't want it, but trying to justify why science and data is a load of rubbish is a bit of a reach.

@Nothinbut There isn't a correlation between high BMI and low IQ of course not. I do think that some people maybe think their age keeps them ‘safe’ even if they have a higher BMI though.

Given the figures we have, it’s obvious that there are more unvaccinated people in ICU with higher BMIs (>25) than lower ones. I think that’s worth addressing. When we saw that there were more older people/people with certain conditions being hospitalised we made a point of highlighting their risk - it was everywhere in the media-and then prioritising them for vaccination.

[quote bumbleymummy]@Nothinbut There isn't a correlation between high BMI and low IQ of course not. I do think that some people maybe think their age keeps them ‘safe’ even if they have a higher BMI though.

Given the figures we have, it’s obvious that there are more unvaccinated people in ICU with higher BMIs (>25) than lower ones. I think that’s worth addressing. When we saw that there were more older people/people with certain conditions being hospitalised we made a point of highlighting their risk - it was everywhere in the media-and then prioritising them for vaccination.[/quote]
Honestly you are like a dog with a bone with your BMI.

Given the figures we have, it’s obvious that there are more unvaccinated people in ICU with higher BMIs (>25) than lower ones. I think that’s worth addressing.

Addressing in what way. That BMI is the bigger factor of risk rather than vaccination status? Or that lower BMI individuals do not need vaccination as much as >25?

"There isn't a correlation between high BMI and low IQ"

That statement is literally untrue as demonstrated in many studies although there are of course multiple confounding sociopath-economic factors, and of course many people for whom the correlation does not hold good in either direction.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/lim2.11

Your basic point that most overweight people are perfectly capable of understanding that their weight puts them at higher risk is true I'm sure, but what you actually said is not true.