Wtf is going on??!!

[NearlyDown]

I actually think it’s quite scary and a bit strange the amount of people who are happy to have their human rights taken away.

For the record I’m fully vaccinated and I think that the vaccine is brilliant, but it is a medical procedure and I don’t think people that have made the decision not to have said medical procedure should then not be able to participate in society.

This is not at all normal, I can see the hospital beds are getting overwhelmed but this is likely because of viruses that haven’t been able to run through the population normally are making people very poorly.

Which means that this will happen every winter forevermore if we don’t let humans, vaccinated or not just get on with life.

I see Godwin’s Law is in fairly full flow on this thread, and it’s only 9 pages long so far. Most are fairly “standard”, but on a couple of threads I’ve seen some very unpleasant posts trying to disguise their references.

I’m predicting that “chilling” will fairly quickly replace “frothing’” as one of the favourite words to chuck into posts. Closely followed by dystopian, tyranny, dictatorship and control. Am sure that list will rise.

Slightly disappointed to see the word sheeple appear - I was hoping that one had finally shuffled off to a new pasture.

And someone getting angry because a bus driver wanted to see their FAKE exemption lanyards - well done you, hope you’re proud of yourself for adding to the pile of self-centred idiots doing their tiny little bit to make things even more difficult for those who are truly exempt. And no, I’m not exempt, but I’ve read enough posts across this board to see that they’re finding things rather unpleasant.

@Anythingbutsnow

Regarding the quarantine camps. Would people who support them be happy to be dragged away from their home and family for 14 days? Or have a family member forced into one. I wonder how long it is before people are hiding in the loft to avoid being arrested and taken to a camp. Sorry, but I don't think it would be a huge leap if we started hearing the police in Australia have shot someone for trying to escape to one of the camps.

That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve read.

To not grasp that this is not about you, the individual, and your so-called right to infect others and perpetuate this pandemic worldwide

I am fully vaccinated (well I was, I've had the first two doses but now of course you need the booster too) but that doesn't mean I think everyone else should have substances injected into them against their will.

And just because you are not vaccinated does not mean you have the virus. In fact the opposite is quite likely to be true.

Well that's what we were told was the answer. Vaccines were the saviour, we were told how amazing the scientists were and so on. But now it seems that people being vaccinated to protect themselves is not enough. They also need other people to be vaccinated to protect them. The whole thing is just absurd.

Everyone who can being vaccinated is the answer to getting to a place where we can live with this virus.

“They can be vaccinated” was not an appropriate answer to the issues being faced by disabled or CEV people. Thousands of primarily young, fit and healthy people, who claim the vaccine is dangerous and flawed and problematic because of something their auntie Jean posted on Facebook, thought it was ok for this “experimental” vaccine to be injected in to millions of elderly, vulnerable and disabled people first to solve the problem of the unvaccinated not being able to meet their friends for dinner.

The removal of services and blocking of streets which restricted peoples movements is not solved by disabled people being vaccinated.

The outcome of the removal of simple restrictions like distancing and masking and proper ventilation, which really don’t impact on people, is not solved by vulnerable people being vaccinated.

@EmotionalSupportBear - thanks for posting this. I added something very similar on another thread on this topic. I.e. most rights are not absolute. Whether interference with them is justified comes down to a balancing act.

For example, the melodramatic strapping people down and forcibly injecting them example is abhorrent in the context of the flu, but would look entirely different if talking about a disease as horrific as Ebola. I think public support for personal autonomy if the consequence of exercising it meant large swathes of us were likely to face a terrifying death would vanish.

This is all about navigating what is reasonable and proportionate, and we should certainly all be wary about governments exercising these powers and scrutinise them. But that does not necessarily mean human rights actually are being abused or that we’re ‘on a slippery slope’.

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

What human rights are being taken away?

Speaking of scary - It must be extremely scary for the clinically vulnerable to live in a society where people just do not give a shit and are happily putting their lives at risk. I'm not just talking about anti vaxxers, but those who just won't wear masks etc (even though that wasn't your point, that's an aside). Perhaps too thick to even realise that they are putting peoples lives at risk - or worse, just don't care.

It was "extremely scary" for the clinically vulnerable pre covid with a myriad of different viruses causing potential problems yet there wasn't a mask in sight for previous flu pandemics unless amidst your virtuous preachings you were wearing one yourself? Highly doubtful.. what is truly terrifying is the vast majority of the population which are healthy have to potentially jeopardise their health with numerous jabs to function in society taking medication they don't want every few months. It doesn't get much more controlling or in your words " scary " than that where we allow the state to determine what's put in our own bodies.

Your final line of " perhaps too thick to realise they are putting peoples lives at risk" applies to you every day as you drive a car, walk around with a cold which could kill someone extremely vulnerable etc.

@Anythingbutsnow

Regarding the quarantine camps. Would people who support them be happy to be dragged away from their home and family for 14 days? Or have a family member forced into one. I wonder how long it is before people are hiding in the loft to avoid being arrested and taken to a camp. Sorry, but I don't think it would be a huge leap if we started hearing the police in Australia have shot someone for trying to escape to one of the camps.

I'll say it again, just in case anyone missed it the first time:

THEY ARE USED FOR RETURNED AND REPATRIATED TRAVELLERS

There is no other purpose of these facilities.

Your using them for hyperbole purposes when you don't understand what they are even used for is irritating.

I still can't get over how the Coronavirus topic on MN early last year was about 75% YOU WILL KILL SOMEONE'S GRANDMA IF YOU SIT ON A PARK BENCH DURING YOUR ALLOTTED HOUR OF EXERCISE and now is full of nutjobs shrilling about imaginary human rights because they don't fancy wearing a mask.

OP please explain precisely which 'human rights' you think are being taken from you in the UK (or Germany for that matter, where I assume you don't live)? Your unalienable right to go down the pub? To party with huge numbers of other people? We are living through exceptional times. I don't think that the commentators of the future will be particularly kind about people with your sorts of attitudes when they look back at what MIGHT have helped us mitigate death and misery.

If we were in an exceptionally difficult position with blood donations, would you support blood donation being mandatory? Where is the line drawn exactly for the " greater good" often referred to?

The line is drawn wherever is appropriate for what was happening at the time. If something happened where hundreds of thousands of people were dying, as has happened, for the want of a pint of blood, and all the public health messaging was failing, yes, on balance I probably would. And I say that as someone who has a really major problem with blood donation in that I have tried several times and been unable. The chances of that happening is incredibly low, so if it did happen, one would have to assume the situation was catastrophic.

Howard springs quarantine camp is used for return travelers and internment for people in areas of outbreak.
Obviously peoples mental health is suffering as per a recent escape from the facility. The fact that these people are hunted down and detained is disgusting and people minimizing the affect that these camps have on people is equally disgusting. These people are not criminals.
www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/dec/01/nt-police-search-for-three-people-who-escaped-from-howard-springs-covid-quarantine-facility

A video of being threatened with fines is she crosses a line.
www.instagram.com/tv/CXBHG7Op-lQ/?utm_medium=copy_link

Things are not good in Australia.

@Draggondragon

Genuine question *@Draggondragon* for you and others who find these posts boring - what would like to see happen from a policy standpoint to people who refuse at all costs to be vaccinated? ie even under threat of jail and fines? What would be your next step?

Reply above

I'd like to see body autonomy to be respected from people tagging themselves in their own posts

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

What human rights are being taken away?

Speaking of scary - It must be extremely scary for the clinically vulnerable to live in a society where people just do not give a shit and are happily putting their lives at risk. I'm not just talking about anti vaxxers, but those who just won't wear masks etc (even though that wasn't your point, that's an aside). Perhaps too thick to even realise that they are putting peoples lives at risk - or worse, just don't care.

Wearing a mask doesn't kill people (I know there was a case of a child in a PE class in China).

And many people who are vulnerable to covid are vulnerable to other illnesses too. We don't even routinely vaccinate for chicken pox, for example, even though it can be serious in some cases.

We have a very high vaccination rate in the UK and we certainly do not need to emulate what is happening in other countries. The only thing I wanted was a return to masks in shops and public transport as that is a simple precaution that does not inconvenience the majority (and also helps to prevent the spread of colds and flu, so also reduces the need for testing).

@Dishhh not entirely true. They have been used for people in communities in NT where there have been outbreaks. The premier Michael Gunner stated that people were being held there from parts of Katherine in the NT.

@user1999952776

Yeah it really does, people would rather not take a simple vaccine to protect themselves and others when they claim to have taken all childhood jabs or not even wear a mask which is a small inconvenience in fighting the pandemic when they aren’t exempt.

1.3 million hospital admissions in 2020 for alcohol related issues in the UK yet you're worried about healthy young people not taking a vaccine for a virus which will be mild for the vast majority? A small percentage of people in hospital for covid are unvaccinated. In wales less than 20% of covid inpatients are unvaccinated- why don't you focus on 1.3 million drinkers overstretching the NHS?

It was "extremely scary" for the clinically vulnerable pre covid with a myriad of different viruses causing potential problems yet there wasn't a mask in sight for previous flu pandemics unless amidst your virtuous preachings you were wearing one yourself? Highly doubtful.. what is truly terrifying is the vast majority of the population which are healthy have to potentially jeopardise their health with numerous jabs to function in society taking medication they don't want every few months. It doesn't get much more controlling or in your words " scary " than that where we allow the state to determine what's put in our own bodies.

Not masking, but followed all the other public health advice in flu season which was deemed appropriate enough to help stop the spread of flu, a virus with a far lower R rate. We vaccinate thousands of fit and healthy people every year, including school age children, against flu, not to protect them, but to protect those vulnerable to it. Before the vaccination was rolled out to school aged children over 5, we had our daughter vaccinated for it because she had 2 vulnerable kids in her class, one of whom was her best friend.

I’m vaccinated against mumps even though it isn’t a problem for me. My husband is vaccinated against rubella even though it causes no problem for him.

So, yeah, safe to say, doing things for the protection of CEV people, was a thing long before COVID.

I'd like to kill my neighbour but it's illegal....surely that contravenes my human rights. He's horrible!

You silly woman, infection rates are UP, people die - really die - from Covid. It's not some idea made up to annoy you. Selfish selfish selfish. Thoughtless, no understanding of the functioning of a society. The more people like you behave like you do the longer the lockdowns and the more extreme the measures will have to be.

It's you - YOU - who are bringing about those sort of measures, your fault. Stop it.

1.3 million hospital admissions in 2020 for alcohol related issues in the UK yet you're worried about healthy young people not taking a vaccine for a virus which will be mild for the vast majority?

Can you not be concerned about more than one thing at a time? That must be a real problem for you.

What rights have been taken away from us? I must have missed that.

Just going back to the seat belt analogy. I was involved in a head on crash a few years ago, not my fault, other driver came round a bend on the wrong side of the road. Obviously I was wearing a seat belt . A few hours later the most horrendous bruising came up on my abdomen, obviously caused by the seat belt, so you could say I was injured by having my rights take away by it being law I had to wear a seat belt. But that was a hell of a lot more preferable than being thrown through the windscreen.

By the way wheres the op?
And anyone still throwing around the word sheeple is not worth listening to.

Older people are more likely to be vaccinated.

Let's say you have 100 older people.
90 are vaccinated and 10 are unvaccinated.
10 of the 100 people go to hospital with Covid.
8 in the hospital are vaccinated. 2 are unvaccinated.
8 out of 90 = 8.9% of the vaccinated people are in hospital.
2 out of 10 = 20% of the unvaccinated people are in hospital.

With a vaccination rate of 90% in an older age group, if 8 out of 10 hospital patients are vaccinated, that still means the unvaccinated are more than twice as likely to have to go to hospital.

Interesting paper in the Lancet. The Lancet is a respected Journal, no links with the Far Right to my knowledge
www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08#%20

@BoredZelda

It was "extremely scary" for the clinically vulnerable pre covid with a myriad of different viruses causing potential problems yet there wasn't a mask in sight for previous flu pandemics unless amidst your virtuous preachings you were wearing one yourself? Highly doubtful.. what is truly terrifying is the vast majority of the population which are healthy have to potentially jeopardise their health with numerous jabs to function in society taking medication they don't want every few months. It doesn't get much more controlling or in your words " scary " than that where we allow the state to determine what's put in our own bodies.

Not masking, but followed all the other public health advice in flu season which was deemed appropriate enough to help stop the spread of flu, a virus with a far lower R rate. We vaccinate thousands of fit and healthy people every year, including school age children, against flu, not to protect them, but to protect those vulnerable to it. Before the vaccination was rolled out to school aged children over 5, we had our daughter vaccinated for it because she had 2 vulnerable kids in her class, one of whom was her best friend.

I’m vaccinated against mumps even though it isn’t a problem for me. My husband is vaccinated against rubella even though it causes no problem for him.

So, yeah, safe to say, doing things for the protection of CEV people, was a thing long before COVID.

What percentage of the adult population pre 2019 vaccinated themselves against flu then for the "greater good"?

@Draggondragon

Let them die if they get it, don't waste ee sources on them. And allow the normal people to have safe zones away from them.

I'm fully in favour of vaccines - not sure about mandatory ones, but that's not because I disagree with vaccination, more because of the whole bodily autonomy thing. I have regular vaccinations for various health conditions and am fully covid jabbed. Vaccines are one of mankind's crowning achievements.

But I can't get over comments like this. Not everyone who decides not to get vaccinated is an antivaxx nutjob - some (including a few people I know) have serious MH issues which have caused a great deal of distress re vaccination and Covid generally. Some people cannot have the jab for medical reasons. Will those who cannot have their jab through no fault of their own be allowed in your 'safe zones'?

Wishing death on people, whatever the circumstances, is disgusting. I suppose you think of yourself as caring and compassionate - well, I've got news for you. You're not.

Covid has really shown how terrifying some people can be.

One positive for me is that wearing a mask in the supermarket looks a lot less unusual now; I'm very happy to do that if there are respiratory viruses/ flu going round in winter. (as someone liable to pneumonia)