What does everyone think about the banning of the unvaxxed in Germany?

[Katieandthekids]

I'm just interested in opinions. I personally believe that no one should ever force anyone to put something in their body.

Just as a side: I had both vaccines during my pregnancy and still not 100% sure I've done the right thing but in balance and after lots of my research believe 99% that it is fine. Totally respect the reasons people are nervous about it though.

It baffled me how so many seemingly educated people could be so easily led and so easy to manipulate. Then I realised that for some people, being given an automatic superiority/sense of righteousness was a strong motivator.

People who say, drastic times call for drastic measures…. Does it not occur, even slightly that those in power will drag on these “drastic times” in order to bring in more and more restrictions and people will just keep going along with it?

I don’t purport to have all of the answers but I have the right to critical thinking. To ask questions without being demonised by this developing worldwide cult. Honestly scared for the future.

@churchofthepoisonmind

Somebody on another thread has just said let the unvaxxed die and the 'normal' get on with things. Just so people all know which side the argument they are on

Except that the unvaccinated won’t all die because the majority of them have chosen not to be due to a low risk profile, what that sort of comment does show is that some think covid is so deadly that death is inevitable for anyone infected when in reality the overwhelming majority will suffer no adverse effects.

This video is brilliant:
'Mass psychosis'. It is the only logical explanation to the events unfolding.

Also, does it not occur to these superior vaxxed people that there are hundreds of variables at play?

Most vaxxed people I know have done so obediently and role out facts they obtain from the local papers. They think they are superhuman and follow fewer guidelines than the unvaxxed. They go out more. Mix more. More careless. Seriously… it’s not as simple as most people believe and it shocks me every day how most people I know just don’t care about details.

This is what has shaken me. I just didn’t think our population would ever be so easily coerced!

@churchofthepoisonmind

This video is brilliant: 'Mass psychosis'. It is the only logical explanation to the events unfolding.

Ah Robert Malone still cashing in on his misinformation videos

This is what has shaken me. I just didn’t think our population would ever be so easily coerced

I didn’t think that big part of the population would fall for the most stupid conspiracy theories, but here we all.

I think many of the specific mandates based on vaccination/immunity status are unfeasible or going to have very little effect on overall transmission

But it's impossible for this to be debated on MN without all the conspiracy theories and misinformation

It is a tiny minority of adults who have turned down vaccination and have a good understanding of vaccination & coronavirus.

Germany desperately need to get their vaccination rates up - this isn't the way to go about it. However most people arguing against these kind of mandates fail to understand why increasing vaccination is so urgent.

And yet it wasn't that long ago on Mumsnet that posters were advocating denying school and nursery places to children who hadn't had the MMR. IIRC the vast majority were in favour of that.

At least here we are talking about adults.

@ollyollyoxenfree

I think many of the specific mandates based on vaccination/immunity status are unfeasible or going to have very little effect on overall transmission

But it's impossible for this to be debated on MN without all the conspiracy theories and misinformation

It is a tiny minority of adults who have turned down vaccination and have a good understanding of vaccination & coronavirus.

Germany desperately need to get their vaccination rates up - this isn't the way to go about it. However most people arguing against these kind of mandates fail to understand why increasing vaccination is so urgent.

If you think mandates will have little effect overall on transmission then why do you think that Germany need to get their vaccination rates up?

The problem with debate is that anything can be labelled conspiracy theory or misinformation until it turns out that it isn’t as demonstrated by what we see unfolding in Europe.

To the PP for implying I’m a conspiracy nut …. Thank you for proving a point. You don’t know me but people who do would tell you I’m the last person they would think of as a conspiracy theorist!

I’m questioning things. You don’t like that do you. So out comes the conspiracy comment ….

Plenty of vaccinated people do not agree with mandating a vaccine. Medical professionals risk being shot down by colleagues to put their hand up and say this is wrong. You won’t hear about these people in the news.

If the vaccine was the ultimate gift from god and saved all our problems etc etc I would still advocate free choice. It’s a very dark road to go down it really is.

I’m questioning things

You are think you are questioning things. I reality you are unquestionably swallowing the rubbish anti Vaxxers are feeding you.

You seriously think Robert Malone or any other 'conspiracy theorists' are making money out of this @ollyollyoxenfree ? So how does that work then? Who is paying them? No mainstream advertiser is going to touch them with a barge pole. Any decent academia career is a no-no. So who is funding them?

Oh and God has nothing to do with a vaccine. Science does.

ChardonnaysPetDragon

Could you please outline exactly what ‘anti/vax’ rubbish you think people have swallowed?

@WeDidntMeanToGoToSea

'It's quite funny how your lengthy post implies restrictions in Germany arem't draconian but then state " If you were with friends in a private house and your parents walked in who were unvaccinated breaking the rules you would have to leave". How anyone can say with a straight face that isn't a significant step back to more sinister times in Germany beggars belief quite frankly- that's normal in your eyes is it?'

BlueSkiesAbove, read that bit of my post again. The (hypothetical) example (in an explainer on a German newspaper website) said that if you (vaccinated) were being visited by your (vaccinated) parents and friends (unvaccinated) arrived, your (vaccinated) parents would have to leave (to give way to the unvaccinated guests).

We all remember the limits on numbers of households and people who could get together from last year/early this year - in the UK as well as Germany and other countries. We didn't have vaccines then, so we had to try and keep people safe that way. Now we do have vaccines, but some people haven't taken them up, so we have to have similar restrictions for them, to keep them (and others) safe.

As far as your reference to 'more sinister times' goes - you have absolutely no idea. None whatsoever, neither of Nazi Germany nor of Germany today. Please stop offending this German, other Germans and victims of the Nazis with this nonsense.

I stand by my comments of parents being asked to leave as "the state won't allow it" is utterly horrific and something from a dystopian horror film. If that offends you or you feel that is a normal way of living remotely close to being acceptable good for you.

@churchofthepoisonmind

You seriously think Robert Malone or any other 'conspiracy theorists' are making money out of this *@ollyollyoxenfree* ? So how does that work then? Who is paying them? No mainstream advertiser is going to touch them with a barge pole. Any decent academia career is a no-no. So who is funding them?

I meant specifically that video @churchofthepoisonmind

Has racked up 300k views since the 27th

Any decent academia career is a no-no
Yes - I have no idea why sciensts/clinicians have decided to do this. One retracted paper is bad enough, let alone a whole anti-vaccine campaign. I think some most believe in what they are saying, some must be benefitting. The controversial papers are the ones that end up being highly cited which I think is a factor - see ivermectin as an example.

I've often posted saying I don't understand it and I don't think it matters tbh - it is easy to disprove Malone's claims, far less so to understand why he might be doing it.

Interestingly I nearly got the vaccine after a near-miss of a close relative. They had remained unvaccinated and contracted the virus. They had all their relatives around them and it was touch and go. Thank god they pulled through! Interestingly, the doctors gave them an option to send some final messages to close family just in case. I assumed it would be telling them how much they loved them but instead their message was, "get vaccinated! - and you can tell the Daily Mail, BBC etc that those were my last words."
True story. No, really.

Views of videos are meaningless unless they can be monetised @ollyollyoxenfree . The likes of Malone etc have been committing financial suicide. There is no financial upside to being a 'conspiracy theorist'. I can think of plenty of people who ARE making lots of money out of this, however.

@churchofthepoisonmind

You seriously think Robert Malone or any other 'conspiracy theorists' are making money out of this *@ollyollyoxenfree* ? So how does that work then? Who is paying them? No mainstream advertiser is going to touch them with a barge pole. Any decent academia career is a no-no. So who is funding them?

People make a lot of money spreading conspiracy theories

www.counterhate.com/disinformationdozen

www.nytimes.com/2021/07/24/technology/joseph-mercola-coronavirus-misinformation-online.html

"Researchers and regulators say Joseph Mercola, an osteopathic physician, creates and profits from misleading claims about Covid-19 vaccines."

I've often posted saying I don't understand it and I don't think it matters tbh - it is easy to disprove Malone's claims, far less so to understand why he might be doing it
BS. Of course it matters. Peoples' motives on either side of this debate always matter. Follow the money, always. We all know that.

@churchofthepoisonmind

Interestingly I nearly got the vaccine after a near-miss of a close relative. They had remained unvaccinated and contracted the virus. They had all their relatives around them and it was touch and go. Thank god they pulled through! Interestingly, the doctors gave them an option to send some final messages to close family just in case. I assumed it would be telling them how much they loved them but instead their message was, "get vaccinated! - and you can tell the Daily Mail, BBC etc that those were my last words." True story. No, really.

Meh - I can understand why some families go to the press to try and prevent it happening to someone else, not sure why you assume this too is another huge conspiracy.

If you have come the realisation that you are dying, and that vaccination would in all liklihood have prevented it, I don't think it's a stretch to assume this is something someone would articulate to their medical team & loved ones.

"Researchers and regulators say Joseph Mercola, an osteopathic physician, creates and profits from misleading claims about Covid-19 vaccines.
Proof? I would bet that virtually every 'conspiracy theorist' in this pandemic has wrecked their career. This really is not rocket science.

@churchofthepoisonmind

I've often posted saying I don't understand it and I don't think it matters tbh - it is easy to disprove Malone's claims, far less so to understand why he might be doing it BS. Of course it matters. Peoples' motives on either side of this debate always matter. Follow the money, always. We all know that.

But his claims are false - easy for to prove this as a scientist.

I'll leave it up to others to speculate as to why this might be - it's not something I have enough knowledge on.

Mike Yeadon, Malone,Clare Craig, AFD, HART, UST, FLCCC et al - any idea why these individuals & groups continually peddle coronavirus and vaccine misinformation?

@churchofthepoisonmind

"Researchers and regulators say Joseph Mercola, an osteopathic physician, creates and profits from misleading claims about Covid-19 vaccines. Proof? I would bet that virtually every 'conspiracy theorist' in this pandemic has wrecked their career. This really is not rocket science.

I mean they seem to merrily be continuing, almost two years later, so clearly something is going right

Always ends up back at the conspiracy concept. Can we not just discuss other points without people thinking we are at opposite ends of a scale?? I know there are real anti vax people who believe in very outlandish claims etc

Most people questioning a mandated vaccine are not in that bracket. I’m afraid for our human rights.