What does everyone think about the banning of the unvaxxed in Germany?

[Katieandthekids]

I'm just interested in opinions. I personally believe that no one should ever force anyone to put something in their body.

Just as a side: I had both vaccines during my pregnancy and still not 100% sure I've done the right thing but in balance and after lots of my research believe 99% that it is fine. Totally respect the reasons people are nervous about it though.

@BlueskiesAbove URL will do

I don't think a discussion about how covid death figures are actually measured would be any use with you- it would go over your head sadly.

So funny!

I am not the topic, incidentally. Germany is the topic.

the people that are still advocating lockdown

Nobody is advocating lockdown - just discussing the fact that those who are choosing to remain unvaccinated in Germany face certain curbs on their behaviours in entering premises, etc.

The government hide behind between stats such as between January and July most patients were unvaccinated in covid wards who died- what they fail to mention is most people earlier this year were unvaccinated ( 2 jabs).

Government stats

Some nuances re these explained here:

www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-03/coronacheck-covid-19-uk-death-statistics-pauline-hanson/100669454

I think its ridiculous for numerous reasons probably outlined in the last 10 pages so I wont bore you all!

@AutomaticMoon funny, half of my family originates - a couple of generations ago - from the same country as you, so I’m fully aware of the damages those governments did to people over time.

‘But I made it out alive’ - are you aware many others didn’t?

Are you aware the reason babies don’t regularly die from mumps or measles or rubella is because those vaccines are effective?

A friend of a dear relative, in Romania, died last month from Covid. You will probably be thinking they gave it to him on purpose, or the corrupt hospital made it up and he was used for propaganda purposes… anyway, from a scientific point of view he died of Covid. His wife refused to take him to hospital until he literally couldn’t breathe, instead she kept him at home because she didn’t trust the hospital would actually help him. She gave him ‘lemon, ginger and essential oils’. The immediate family couldn’t attend the funeral because they were all Covid positive by the time this poor man (in his 40s) died.

This is an honest question. If you believe the government is demented, this is all cheap propaganda (for what?) and we’re going through a dystopian great reset… why live in a Western country? Why not go back to these places where people are actually standing up for their rights, not like the English? Romania has a vaccination rate of about 35%. Why not go to such a place?

It makes my blood boil to see people who were lucky enough to leave their country for one with more opportunities and general conditions and policies, but insist on bashing the ‘demented governments’ that have taken them in. If someone doesn’t want to live under such totalitarian rules, they leave.

Still waiting 😊 @BlueskiesAbove I would like to see the numbers that you are alluding to

@milkyaqua

I don't think a discussion about how covid death figures are actually measured would be any use with you- it would go over your head sadly.

So funny!

I am not the topic, incidentally. Germany is the topic.

the people that are still advocating lockdown

Nobody is advocating lockdown - just discussing the fact that those who are choosing to remain unvaccinated in Germany face certain curbs on their behaviours in entering premises, etc.

Quite. But I don’t agree that people who are unvaccinated should have to live differently to the people that are. It’s dangerous territory. I feel you can see it now even on a thread like this.

This is in response to the comment regarding the “There are more unvaccinated patients in ICU”

www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/waleed-alys-surgeon-brother-delivers-desperate-covid-plea/news-story/ed1e0826d6d35237c55ce4d9e37d1546

Also, nobody was promised that the vaccination would stop people from becoming sick. It HAS decreased the death rate exponentially.

[quote BHX3000]@AutomaticMoon funny, half of my family originates - a couple of generations ago - from the same country as you, so I’m fully aware of the damages those governments did to people over time.

‘But I made it out alive’ - are you aware many others didn’t?

Are you aware the reason babies don’t regularly die from mumps or measles or rubella is because those vaccines are effective?

A friend of a dear relative, in Romania, died last month from Covid. You will probably be thinking they gave it to him on purpose, or the corrupt hospital made it up and he was used for propaganda purposes… anyway, from a scientific point of view he died of Covid. His wife refused to take him to hospital until he literally couldn’t breathe, instead she kept him at home because she didn’t trust the hospital would actually help him. She gave him ‘lemon, ginger and essential oils’. The immediate family couldn’t attend the funeral because they were all Covid positive by the time this poor man (in his 40s) died.

This is an honest question. If you believe the government is demented, this is all cheap propaganda (for what?) and we’re going through a dystopian great reset… why live in a Western country? Why not go back to these places where people are actually standing up for their rights, not like the English? Romania has a vaccination rate of about 35%. Why not go to such a place?

It makes my blood boil to see people who were lucky enough to leave their country for one with more opportunities and general conditions and policies, but insist on bashing the ‘demented governments’ that have taken them in. If someone doesn’t want to live under such totalitarian rules, they leave.[/quote]
I am entirely talking about the thread title and the discussion about the measures being taking in Germany right now, where they have been offered the vaccine and are lucky enough to access that the ones that don’t want to, aren’t. And they gave that choice. Why does it mean they have to be locked away/treated differently?

That it’s down to the Germans how they manage virus controls in their own country.

@togfee

Still waiting 😊 *@BlueskiesAbove* I would like to see the numbers that you are alluding to

The data is here

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-surveillance-reports

@Pyewackect

That it’s down to the Germans how they manage virus controls in their own country.

Well yes but theyre still humans?

@togfee

Do share it please

There are loads, the fact you think otherwise is quite funny

www.itv.com/news/wales/2021-09-24/7-of-hospital-patients-in-wales-test-positive-for-coronavirus

The percentage of people who have tested positive for coronavirus while in Welsh hospitals is now at 7%, latest figures reveal.

637 out of 9,735 hospital patients had tested positive for the virus up til the week ending September 19.

More than 80% of patients in hospitals in Wales, who have tested positive for Covid-19, have been double jabbed.

Public Health Wales statistics show 80.3% of all Covid-positive hospital patients have had both doses of the vaccine. For patients aged 60 and over, the percentage of those double jabbed rises to 90%.

Numerous studies show the viral loads are similar between vaccinated and unvaccinated. This study for delta variant clearly shows this:
www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074

It’s not justified.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08#

[quote Justilou1]This is in response to the comment regarding the “There are more unvaccinated patients in ICU”

www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/waleed-alys-surgeon-brother-delivers-desperate-covid-plea/news-story/ed1e0826d6d35237c55ce4d9e37d1546[/quote]
I give you an entire countries health stats and you give me " waleed alys surgeons brother " treating 13 patients" haha

[quote AutomaticMoon]Numerous studies show the viral loads are similar between vaccinated and unvaccinated. This study for delta variant clearly shows this:
www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074[/quote]
yep, its late but Ive read reputable studies showing the difference is around 13%. I will search for it tomorrow is anyone wants to read it

@BHX3000 Oh so I must go back to my country, eh? Or just shut up 😂 It’s this kind of attitude that I find disturbing. I’m a british citizen, my life is here and has been for 20 years. I’m also allowed to criticise the government, currently, it’s not yet treason and illegal. It’s also disturbing that you take it so personally, were you partying with gov aides last December and breaking gathering rules? Or why does it irk you so much that I dare to have valid criticism of the country I live in? Care workers on minimum wage cannot afford a home locally but they’re supposed to forgo the right to body autonomy 😂 Coercion regarding medical treatment is forbidden in the Nuremberg Code.

Imagine anyone drawing conclusions from a surgeons brother treating 13 patients- this is the type of madness rife in society where people can't interpret data.

High COVID-19 vaccination rates were expected to reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in populations by reducing the number of possible sources for transmission and thereby to reduce the burden of COVID-19 disease. Recent data, however, indicate that the epidemiological relevance of COVID-19 vaccinated individuals is increasing.

In the UK it was described that secondary attack rates among household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was similar to household contacts exposed to unvaccinated index cases (25% for vaccinated vs 23% for unvaccinated). 12 of 31 infections in fully vaccinated household contacts (39%) arose from fully vaccinated epidemiologically linked index cases. Peak viral load did not differ by vaccination status or variant type 1. In Germany, the rate of symptomatic COVID-19 cases among the fully vaccinated (“breakthrough infections”) is reported weekly since 21. July 2021 and was 16.9% at that time among patients of 60 years and older 2.

This proportion is increasing week by week and was 58.9% on 27. October 2021 (Figure 1) providing clear evidence of the increasing relevance of the fully vaccinated as a possible source of transmission. A similar situation was described for the UK. Between week 39 and 42, a total of 100.160 COVID-19 cases were reported among citizens of 60 years or older.

89.821 occurred among the fully vaccinated (89.7%), 3.395 among the unvaccinated (3.4%) 3. One week before, the COVID-19 case rate per 100.000 was higher among the subgroup of the vaccinated compared to the subgroup of the unvaccinated in all age groups of 30 years or more. In Israel a nosocomial outbreak was reported involving 16 healthcare workers, 23 exposed patients and two family members. The source was a fully vaccinated COVID-19 patient. The vaccination rate was 96.2% among all exposed individuals (151 healthcare workers and 97 patients).

Fourteen fully vaccinated patients became severely ill or died, the two unvaccinated patients developed mild disease 4. The US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) identifies four of the top five counties with the highest percentage of fully vaccinated population (99.9–84.3%) as “high” transmission counties 5. Many decisionmakers assume that the vaccinated can be excluded as a source of transmission.

It appears to be grossly negligent to ignore the vaccinated population as a possible and relevant source of transmission when deciding about public health control measures.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08#

Agreed @MarbleQueen but rational thinking on this seems to get closed down. Tomorrow we will have to read about anti vaxxers and tin hats again with the odd covid minimiser tag thrown in as many are so entrenched in their thinking it's become almost a mad covid cult now.

I'm convinced if the government introduced a mandate for people to wear a bucket over our heads with a couple of holes to see out of the debate would transform to " surely one hole is enough or are you a selfish anti bucketer risking lives" in due course

@Justilou1

Also, nobody was promised that the vaccination would stop people from becoming sick. It HAS decreased the death rate exponentially.

No, but at the moment the vaccines were given fight the strains we know of. Flu vaccines do the same, there’s always a strain that’ll evade the vaccine, because that’s what a virus does.

So just because the people that don’t want to take the vaccine are carrying a mutation that vaccinated people may catch, doesn’t make them ‘stupid’ ‘anti vaxxers’ or ‘conspiracy theorists’. It’s purely the fact Covids job is to evade the vaccine ffs. You’re not miraculously jabbed and turned into this higher power that must now Protect. Your. Country. The other variants will spread regardless of vaccine or not that’s just how a virus works.

We have all done our bit and honestly, what more are we meant to do? I agree with masks in shops, but this segregating that is being proposed is just like lambs to a slaughter

Such a lot of drama on here! Covid passes became a "thing" in NZ from today - I've already shown mine three times. I couldn't care less, and certainly don't think it's the start of some slippery slope where the government is going to take away all our rights.