What does everyone think about the banning of the unvaxxed in Germany?

[Katieandthekids]

I'm just interested in opinions. I personally believe that no one should ever force anyone to put something in their body.

Just as a side: I had both vaccines during my pregnancy and still not 100% sure I've done the right thing but in balance and after lots of my research believe 99% that it is fine. Totally respect the reasons people are nervous about it though.

@milkyaqua

As soon as anyone says they are concerned about the vaccine mandate they have to add " I am not an anti vaxxer" to shut hysterical people like you up.

I'm hysterical? As I said, quite a lot of projection.

You have given loads of 'stats', by the way - all unrelated to this thread.

It's entirely relevant to compare hospital admissions for covid with other lifestyle choices.. are you saying an ICU bed is only relevant if it has a covid patient lying on it?

@Derbee, you're aware I presume that it's not actually a vaccine, right?

how many of the people going on about the selfish unvaccinated people taking up hospital beds are tee totallers?

@BlueskiesAbove actually, I am - you can check my posting history for confirmation of this, I’m not making it up.

I’d actually welcome an alcohol and tobacco ban, why not. They’re harmful habits. BUT:

The difference between alcoholics or obese people, and Covid, is that the health system was and is set up to deal with X number of alcohol and weight-related hospitalisations at any given time. As a result of the needs of our society evolving over time.

Covid was thrown into everybody’s faces with no warning or slow introduction to this new reality. Sure, there were drills and studies into what would happen if a pandemic were to occur but let’s be honest, not one government on this planet was fully prepared to deal with an outbreak as sudden as the one we got last year.

Yes, the obese and the alcoholics are taking up hospital beds. Yes, I wish less people were in that situation, and that we as a society worked harder to prevent people damaging their physical and mental health in such a way that they need to end up in an ICU.

Once again, changing that would take many years. It’s something we need to start on today, but it’s not going to change overnight. These are chronic illnesses that you can’t magically make disappear.

Getting your Covid vaccine - especially if you’re in a vulnerable category or work close to those who are - is, if you’re able to, a small practical step people can take to alleviate the burden on their health services this winter. I don’t say this myself, the experts do.

Sure, some (vaccinated and unvaccinated) people will still die of Covid. People will still get sick. But the more people take the protection that is being offered to them, the less of a burden they will be - collectively, as a society - to their healthcare systems.

People want all the rights and none of the responsibilities. We don’t live alone in this world, most of what we do affects those around us, so we can’t be as selfish as we’d like to be.

An obese person going to the cinema isn’t increasing the risk of weight-related hospitalisations to occur, like someone was trying to imply. We can’t ban alcoholics from going to the theatre either, their mere presence there won’t make others ill. An unvaccinated person does carry a higher risk of infecting those around them when in close proximity in an indoor space. There is a difference.

An obese person going to the cinema isn’t increasing the risk of weight-related hospitalisations to occur

They are if they catch covid as they are far more likely to be hospitalised that somebody who is a healthy weight.

@EileenGC

how many of the people going on about the selfish unvaccinated people taking up hospital beds are tee totallers?

@BlueskiesAbove actually, I am - you can check my posting history for confirmation of this, I’m not making it up.

I’d actually welcome an alcohol and tobacco ban, why not. They’re harmful habits. BUT:

The difference between alcoholics or obese people, and Covid, is that the health system was and is set up to deal with X number of alcohol and weight-related hospitalisations at any given time. As a result of the needs of our society evolving over time.

Covid was thrown into everybody’s faces with no warning or slow introduction to this new reality. Sure, there were drills and studies into what would happen if a pandemic were to occur but let’s be honest, not one government on this planet was fully prepared to deal with an outbreak as sudden as the one we got last year.

Yes, the obese and the alcoholics are taking up hospital beds. Yes, I wish less people were in that situation, and that we as a society worked harder to prevent people damaging their physical and mental health in such a way that they need to end up in an ICU.

Once again, changing that would take many years. It’s something we need to start on today, but it’s not going to change overnight. These are chronic illnesses that you can’t magically make disappear.

Getting your Covid vaccine - especially if you’re in a vulnerable category or work close to those who are - is, if you’re able to, a small practical step people can take to alleviate the burden on their health services this winter. I don’t say this myself, the experts do.

Sure, some (vaccinated and unvaccinated) people will still die of Covid. People will still get sick. But the more people take the protection that is being offered to them, the less of a burden they will be - collectively, as a society - to their healthcare systems.

People want all the rights and none of the responsibilities. We don’t live alone in this world, most of what we do affects those around us, so we can’t be as selfish as we’d like to be.

An obese person going to the cinema isn’t increasing the risk of weight-related hospitalisations to occur, like someone was trying to imply. We can’t ban alcoholics from going to the theatre either, their mere presence there won’t make others ill. An unvaccinated person does carry a higher risk of infecting those around them when in close proximity in an indoor space. There is a difference.

Surely, we as an entire world actually have done our part in the ‘responsibility’ aspect. We locked down until there was a vaccine available to the most vulnerable.

The vaccine is now available to everybody but if you don’t want that vaccine you now have to stay indoors and adhere to these rules, or be ‘responsible’ and get a vaccine you don’t want.

The fact of the matter is, is that people are always going to get sick, actually the longer we’re locked away the more we will get sick as were shut away from every other virus.

It's entirely relevant to compare hospital admissions for covid with other lifestyle choices.. are you saying an ICU bed is only relevant if it has a covid patient lying on it?

Another astonishing segue... More weird accusations.

I don't drink. We are in a pandemic. ICU beds will be unavailable for accident victims, cancer patients, and any number of other seriously ill people if mitigations aren't taken, especially coming into the colder months.

I grew up under totalitarianism in eastern bloc so the current atmosphere is v upsetting, protest is being criminalised, censorship is thriving, doctors not allowed to doctor (in Australia), frightening police brutality taking place in supposedly first world civilised countries... it’s happening astonishingly fast. I was also injured by MMRV vaccine in Romania, it gave me 2 simultaneous severe infections, now I read in the information pamphlet that comes with the vaccine for Varicella that it can cause ‘rarely’ severe vaccine strain infection. I had full blown Mumps & Varicella (Chickenpox) at the same time, the mumps then caused meningitis but I made it out alive. I think the government is demented, it’s fine for them to party and drink and ‘let off steam’ while people in care homes are being dispatched post haste like it happened last winter. It seems that English people are extremely impressionable and probe to manipulation by cheap propaganda tactics. It’s international though, definitely not limited to the English. The so called ‘great reset’/4th industrial revolution taking place now seems to be a dystopian daymare. I’m a care worker on minimum wage and I’m leaving care work and Cornwall, moving to Shetland, so I can have a more pleasant and peaceful environment, hopefully. I know they are highly vaccinated there so I hope I won’t be regarded as a threat. Will be testing before leaving and isolating on arrival, so hopefully it will be fine.

@milkyaqua

It's entirely relevant to compare hospital admissions for covid with other lifestyle choices.. are you saying an ICU bed is only relevant if it has a covid patient lying on it?

Another astonishing segue... More weird accusations.

I don't drink. We are in a pandemic. ICU beds will be unavailable for accident victims, cancer patients, and any number of other seriously ill people if mitigations aren't taken, especially coming into the colder months.

Yes because of the number of lifestyle related illness the NHS has to deal with, if it didn’t there would be capacity to treat those with viral illness.

@EileenGC

how many of the people going on about the selfish unvaccinated people taking up hospital beds are tee totallers?

@BlueskiesAbove actually, I am - you can check my posting history for confirmation of this, I’m not making it up.

I’d actually welcome an alcohol and tobacco ban, why not. They’re harmful habits. BUT:

The difference between alcoholics or obese people, and Covid, is that the health system was and is set up to deal with X number of alcohol and weight-related hospitalisations at any given time. As a result of the needs of our society evolving over time.

Covid was thrown into everybody’s faces with no warning or slow introduction to this new reality. Sure, there were drills and studies into what would happen if a pandemic were to occur but let’s be honest, not one government on this planet was fully prepared to deal with an outbreak as sudden as the one we got last year.

Yes, the obese and the alcoholics are taking up hospital beds. Yes, I wish less people were in that situation, and that we as a society worked harder to prevent people damaging their physical and mental health in such a way that they need to end up in an ICU.

Once again, changing that would take many years. It’s something we need to start on today, but it’s not going to change overnight. These are chronic illnesses that you can’t magically make disappear.

Getting your Covid vaccine - especially if you’re in a vulnerable category or work close to those who are - is, if you’re able to, a small practical step people can take to alleviate the burden on their health services this winter. I don’t say this myself, the experts do.

Sure, some (vaccinated and unvaccinated) people will still die of Covid. People will still get sick. But the more people take the protection that is being offered to them, the less of a burden they will be - collectively, as a society - to their healthcare systems.

People want all the rights and none of the responsibilities. We don’t live alone in this world, most of what we do affects those around us, so we can’t be as selfish as we’d like to be.

An obese person going to the cinema isn’t increasing the risk of weight-related hospitalisations to occur, like someone was trying to imply. We can’t ban alcoholics from going to the theatre either, their mere presence there won’t make others ill. An unvaccinated person does carry a higher risk of infecting those around them when in close proximity in an indoor space. There is a difference.

I'm in the Uk and here the NHS was set up to have reports of continually being overstretched every year. In 2018 there were reports of patients being treated in corridors, I can't speak for Germany.

I don't have an issue with vulnerable people having the vaccine but why should a 25 year old in good shape take a vaccine continually every few months risking what may be horrific side effects... as I said one size doesn't fit all in healthcare.

Regarding your argument of an unvaccinated person carrying a higher risk of covid transmission, there are numerous studies showing the differences are much smaller between the two groups than many think ( there are more vaccinated in covid wards than unvaccinated) but here is the question... Who do you think is likely to pose a greater threat to society, a vaccinated 70 year old who has covid after vaccination for 2 weeks lingering due to age or a vaccinated person who brushes it off in 3 days? If it's the former why not ban the 70 year old for the greater good for going out?

Studies in Israel show a much better natural protection ( contracting the virus) than a vaccine induced one so there is a very strong argument showing an unvaccinated individual will have both a stronger protection against covid and longer lasting one which protects him / her and society. This isn't anti vax, it's a study based on thousands of people.

Regardless of what you believe, nothing overrules body autonomy when it involves adding something to the body a human being doesn't want. It's the most important human right any sentient being has and even if someone is " vulnerable" despite having already been vaccinated, it isn't for a healthy person to jeopardise their health to further protect them.

It's a pandemic. Or do you not believe it is a pandemic, that has killed well over 5 million people and is set to kill another several million this winter...

Twittering and shrieking about fat people/alcoholics clogging up NHS beds, or whatever is seriously missing the point of mitigating against yet another series of serious waves of this virus in Germany, and Europe, currently.

@milkyaqua

It's entirely relevant to compare hospital admissions for covid with other lifestyle choices.. are you saying an ICU bed is only relevant if it has a covid patient lying on it?

Another astonishing segue... More weird accusations.

I don't drink. We are in a pandemic. ICU beds will be unavailable for accident victims, cancer patients, and any number of other seriously ill people if mitigations aren't taken, especially coming into the colder months.

That's not true though because we have the Nightingale Wards, remember them?

They didn't get used the last time the NHS was 'overwhelmed'. You could draw a conclusion from that if you were so minded.

@milkyaqua

It's entirely relevant to compare hospital admissions for covid with other lifestyle choices.. are you saying an ICU bed is only relevant if it has a covid patient lying on it?

Another astonishing segue... More weird accusations.

I don't drink. We are in a pandemic. ICU beds will be unavailable for accident victims, cancer patients, and any number of other seriously ill people if mitigations aren't taken, especially coming into the colder months.

I don't care whether you sit like a nun all day with a couple of lettuce leaves to chomp on and drink holy water from dawn to dusk. What is relevant is the percentage of people in hospitals for covid in comparison to other lifestyle choices and no one can preach about the greater good regarding covid unless they are not part of the other much greater demographic for hospitalisations.

And people in this country have been dying since recording began, in the tens of thousands, every year, due to cold and damp housing, sepsis, malnourishment ( less able to fight the cold ), so many avoidable deaths. Suicides and people living in terrible mental distress, unable to get any help.

I was left by the NHS with an untreated bladder infection because it wasn’t showing up on tests, I suffered for years until I came across the Dr Malone-Lee Protocol and bought ‘illegal’ antibiotics and treated myself. He’s been curing ‘incurable’ Interstitial Cystitis with long courses of strong antibiotics, he found that this supposedly incurable disabling disease is just an embedded v
bladder infection.

In the summer, there were more people dying from flu and pneumonia than covid. Where’s the outrage about all the avoidable deaths in this country, due to poverty and dire housing standards?

@AutomaticMoon

I grew up under totalitarianism in eastern bloc so the current atmosphere is v upsetting, protest is being criminalised, censorship is thriving, doctors not allowed to doctor (in Australia), frightening police brutality taking place in supposedly first world civilised countries... it’s happening astonishingly fast. I was also injured by MMRV vaccine in Romania, it gave me 2 simultaneous severe infections, now I read in the information pamphlet that comes with the vaccine for Varicella that it can cause ‘rarely’ severe vaccine strain infection. I had full blown Mumps & Varicella (Chickenpox) at the same time, the mumps then caused meningitis but I made it out alive. I think the government is demented, it’s fine for them to party and drink and ‘let off steam’ while people in care homes are being dispatched post haste like it happened last winter. It seems that English people are extremely impressionable and probe to manipulation by cheap propaganda tactics. It’s international though, definitely not limited to the English. The so called ‘great reset’/4th industrial revolution taking place now seems to be a dystopian daymare. I’m a care worker on minimum wage and I’m leaving care work and Cornwall, moving to Shetland, so I can have a more pleasant and peaceful environment, hopefully. I know they are highly vaccinated there so I hope I won’t be regarded as a threat. Will be testing before leaving and isolating on arrival, so hopefully it will be fine.

I agree with many of your points, I live in a rural area away from much of this insanity thankfully

Can anyone tell me where the millions went raised by Major Tom? Because they don’t seem to have made a jot of difference. All the fuss about the money being raised and then never a whisper about it since...

@milkyaqua

It's a pandemic. Or do you not believe it is a pandemic, that has killed well over 5 million people and is set to kill another several million this winter...

Twittering and shrieking about fat people/alcoholics clogging up NHS beds, or whatever is seriously missing the point of mitigating against yet another series of serious waves of this virus in Germany, and Europe, currently.

Of course it’s a pandemic, and yes lots have people have died.

Nobody is “twittering or shrieking” but just stating facts. I think the thing about this arguement is that the people that are still advocating lockdown and shunning the people that are not vaccinated treat them as if they’re stupid.

I don’t know why you’d want anyone, ever, to be treated differently just because they have a difference of opinion.

Regardless of what you believe, nothing overrules body autonomy when it involves adding something to the body a human being doesn't want. It's the most important human right any sentient being has

Well, when I read these kind of statements I start wondering if you also think babies and toddlers shouldn’t be vaccinated? They can’t actually say if they want it or not.

Should we not perform medical procedures or ‘put things’ in little children’s bodies then? No blood transfusions in case the child doesn’t want them?

I know I’m exaggerating here but this is not just about people’s wants and individual desires.

I’ll welcome a world with no restrictions on vaccinated or unvaccinated, when they declare this virus endemic and we can stop isolating or testing if we have a cough.

For now, this is what it is. The minute they tell me I can still do my job whilst having Covid, we can drop the measures.

But if contracting Covid means I need to put my life on hold for 10 days then no thank you, I don’t want to catch it. For that, we need protective measures. And I’m a healthy young adult in my early 20s, so 99.99% chance I’ll just get a flu-like illness from Covid. I’m not scared of Covid nor do I want measures forever. I believe they’re necessary right now, because we need to get through another 2-3 winters before this thing becomes endemic.

Or, we could declare it endemic now and try to cope with overrun hospitals.

@BlueskiesAbove
there are more vaccinated in covid wards than unvaccinated

What’s your source?

I applaud Germany.

Also can you share the paper (Israel) that you mention where they suggest this:

“there is a very strong argument showing an unvaccinated individual will have both a stronger protection against covid and longer lasting one which protects him / her and society. This isn't anti vax, it's a study based on thousands of people.”

@EileenGC

Regardless of what you believe, nothing overrules body autonomy when it involves adding something to the body a human being doesn't want. It's the most important human right any sentient being has

Well, when I read these kind of statements I start wondering if you also think babies and toddlers shouldn’t be vaccinated? They can’t actually say if they want it or not.

Should we not perform medical procedures or ‘put things’ in little children’s bodies then? No blood transfusions in case the child doesn’t want them?

I know I’m exaggerating here but this is not just about people’s wants and individual desires.

I’ll welcome a world with no restrictions on vaccinated or unvaccinated, when they declare this virus endemic and we can stop isolating or testing if we have a cough.

For now, this is what it is. The minute they tell me I can still do my job whilst having Covid, we can drop the measures.

But if contracting Covid means I need to put my life on hold for 10 days then no thank you, I don’t want to catch it. For that, we need protective measures. And I’m a healthy young adult in my early 20s, so 99.99% chance I’ll just get a flu-like illness from Covid. I’m not scared of Covid nor do I want measures forever. I believe they’re necessary right now, because we need to get through another 2-3 winters before this thing becomes endemic.

Or, we could declare it endemic now and try to cope with overrun hospitals.

We aren't discussing babies where parents attempt to act in the best will of the baby taking vaccines which have been researched for years, we are talking about adult human beings saying they don't want to be continually injected .

You are confusing " putting your life on hold for ten days" being the fault of the unvaccinated contrary to the ridiculous legislations in place where the majority of people in hospitals are vaccinated.

Presumably you are aware of the new moronic/ omicron whatever its called variant that is now suggested is likely to evade vaccine immunity so a new vaccine will be tweaked... do you just plan on endless injections for years with each new variant? Another question is what do you think the policy of mixing different vaccines in the body will have long term on health- what studies have been done on a person taking moderna, astra zenica and pfizer with what seems to be an ongoing circus of guessing what jab to take when.

I also object to the term booster, they aren't boosters but just more jabs as the first and second don't last

[quote togfee]@BlueskiesAbove
there are more vaccinated in covid wards than unvaccinated

What’s your source?[/quote]
Government stats

Do share it please