New Covid variant *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[Wingingthis]

Can anyone talk some sense about how dangerous this is or is it just the media over exaggerating?

@JesusIsAnyNameFree

I was in M&S today and hardly anyone wearing a mask

Most people wear them in my M&S.

No one wearing masks in M&S Ealing,

Wrt masks. Every little helps.

And - health is holistic. Stress impacts the immune system - and that contributes towards inflammation.... which is a risk factor for COVID.

As for potentially milder initial symptoms. As we already know from many Long COVID patients, it's not just about what happens at the time of active infection. It's also what happens further down the line.... including potential blood clots.

Of course it might be nothing to massively worry about. But at this stage we can't yet know, and for once after repeatedly opting for hindsight over foresight, how about we try it the the other way round this time.

We will know more in 3 weeks which is how long scientists need for data on this new strain. Meanwhile, it does no harm to act with more caution and reduce unnecessary’mingling’ or at least wear face coverings if we are in crowded indoor spaces. Worse case scenario is back to the beginning again, but at least we know what to expect. But it could be more infectious but less deadly, nobody knows as yet. What happened to the need to vaccinate the World, and no one is safe until everyone is safe etc….

Cases now found in Australia, passengers who flew in from Doha.

Good summary thread here from the US:

twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1464647064889872386

I wonder how long it'll be before those who are exempt are once again vilified and abused?

Let's hope everyone can be a little bit kinder and more understanding this time around, both on here and in 'real life'.

The truly exempt will only be left alone when there are no 'exempt' people abusing the exception.

Those who lie sinmply because they can't want to (rather than absolutely can't) are making life harder for both those who are genuinely exempt, and the highly vulnerable who need to be away from those who are unmasked (and who, as all the most vulnerable condtions are covered by DDA, have a legal right to safe public spaces)

@FortniteBoysMum

I'm of the opinion it's time they just let us get on with it. Clearly everything we pass the danger of one variant another is going to appear. Covid is not going away it's now a part of life. Doesn't matter if your vaccinated or not new strains will occur that beat the vaccine. Time we just get up and carry on. Personally I'm against going back to any restrictions as where does it stop. The economy can't handle another lockdown so we need to just get on with it.

It would be lovely if we could just get on with it but the reality is we can’t. If it is more transmissible and evades vaccines and causes the same illness hospitals will fill up quickly. What happens then? I’m not saying that this is going to happen as we just don’t know, but living with it is living with reality not carrying on as we want.

@nether

The truly exempt will only be left alone when there are no 'exempt' people abusing the exception.

Those who lie sinmply because they can't want to (rather than absolutely can't) are making life harder for both those who are genuinely exempt, and the highly vulnerable who need to be away from those who are unmasked (and who, as all the most vulnerable condtions are covered by DDA, have a legal right to safe public spaces)

Nah, they won't. There will always be people with invisible exemptions and judgemental arseholes.

@nether

The truly exempt will only be left alone when there are no 'exempt' people abusing the exception.

Those who lie sinmply because they can't want to (rather than absolutely can't) are making life harder for both those who are genuinely exempt, and the highly vulnerable who need to be away from those who are unmasked (and who, as all the most vulnerable condtions are covered by DDA, have a legal right to safe public spaces)

I agree that those who simply refuse to wear masks make life harder for those of us who can't - but that doesn't excuse the actions of those who shout abuse, threaten or behave violently towards exempt people. I wear a lanyard, but because I don't always 'look' disabled (I do sometimes need a walking stick as I have RA) people make assumptions. As I've said on here before (and been told I have an anti mask agenda for doing so) - I've been spat at, shouted at, called a disease breathed tramp, called selfish countless times and been told people like me don't deserve NHS help if I catch covid. So while mask refusers make things harder in that people see no mask and lump exempt people in with them, there's absolutely no excuse for the abuse and in some awful cases actual violence those with disabilities or health conditions have had to endure. And no doubt will again, now.

There will always be people with invisible exemptions and judgemental arseholes

Yep, sadly.

If last year was anything to go by there's a lot of them on here, too (and a lot of posters who are understanding too, to be fair).

I can't wait for the 'if you can't wear a mask, stay at home' lot to start again. Because not going to work/using public transport/attending medical appointments are all things we can do, after all.

Some scientist tweeting that if we tweak the vaccine for Omicron that wouldn’t necessarily be good as ‘focussing your vaccine to one particular sub lineage such that a different lineage variant has a big advantage. Sometimes beige is good.’

So by the same token, I would guess natural immunity is also good?

So by the same token, I would guess natural immunity is also good?

If you're a fan of eugenics, perhaps. We already have 1000s a week being killed, and many more disabled, by it.

Add in the additional (non COVID) deaths due to delayed diagnosis and treatment....because hospitals are full of Covid patients and dead or off sick HCP. You'd better take care when going for a drive. You wouldn't want to risk an accident during a time of full hospitals...

And again. Long COVID. It is a thing. A rather worrying one for some. Linked to that, a while back studies showed that a sizeable minority of apparently recovered COVID patients died within the next 3-6 months after hospital discharge. Tended to be COVID related conditions (but of course as it was months later, the active infection was gone and tests were negative - and so COVID linked damage was recorded not as COVID death but instead as heart attack, stroke, pneumonia, sepsis, etc.)

How do you know you can get natural immunity from a new mutation btw? Different mutation and all that. And from a possibly semi unnatural virus that could have been modified in a lab (yes, I know it's just a possibility but it would be foolhardy to totally dismiss this when considering mitigations).

@nether

The truly exempt will only be left alone when there are no 'exempt' people abusing the exception.

Those who lie sinmply because they can't want to (rather than absolutely can't) are making life harder for both those who are genuinely exempt, and the highly vulnerable who need to be away from those who are unmasked (and who, as all the most vulnerable condtions are covered by DDA, have a legal right to safe public spaces)

We need to take a leaf out of Europe's book. They seem to have fewer spurious exemptions over there. Genuine exemptions are a small minority.

And you're very right that as all the most vulnerable condtions are covered by DDA, have a legal right to safe public spaces. 1 in 6 of the COVID deaths have been someone who is disabled (included under this definition are most underlying conditions).

And for those who talk of their concerns over the economy. Best if we stopped haemorrhaging the Grey Pound.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/22/over-60s-cut-social-mixing-selfish-public-shunning-face-masks/

We need to take a leaf out of Europe's book. They seem to have fewer spurious exemptions over there. Genuine exemptions are a small minority.

Unless the rule on not needing to prove any exemption changed, I’m not sure how changing the policy on what qualifies as an exemption would make a difference at this point.
And they can’t change the rule on needing to prove an exemption, because GPs do not have the time to be doing extra appointments just to sign it off.

@Tealightsandd: "Wrt masks. Every little helps."

It's true, but as you say, it helps only a little. They're not effective against Delta (cf. Scotland, Wales). Lord knows how pointless they'll be against Om.

If politicians wanted something really effective, they'd be saying it must be FFP3.

Just shows —they don't actually want it to be effective. They're just gaming us. They want us to carry on and spread the thing.

Let's be honest, is the right approach.

I Just hope it's a weaker variant with few symptoms and not that deadly.
We can but hope.

(The 53% mask effectiveness) has been debunked, it's more like 10%

I guess that would explain the effect they didn't have on cases in Scotland and Wales, despite the performance theatre of wearing them?

As said though, it's interesting that the claim was dragged out in time for the announcement that they should be worn again ...

files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

There are numerous medical studies supporting the benefits of wearing a mask. The problem is too many people prefer not to think of others. Other countries around the world have enforced mask wearing and managed much lower Covid deaths.

guess that would explain the effect they didn't have on cases in Scotland and Wales

Or perhaps because they weren't the best masks and/or worn and put on/taken off incorrectly. Eg. Under the nose, kept unsealed and not sterile in a dirty pocket - to put on and take off with often unwashed hands.

FFP2s are the more effective masks.

I'll also repeat again. Psychological impact does make a difference. For the economy (people, particularly the elderly and vulnerable, have been avoiding shops - therefore spending less).

Health is holistic. Stress (including feeling unnecessarily unsafe) effects the immune system. It causes inflammation. Which is s known risk factor for serious COVID.

@Parker231

files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

There are numerous medical studies supporting the benefits of wearing a mask. The problem is too many people prefer not to think of others. Other countries around the world have enforced mask wearing and managed much lower Covid deaths.

This.

Instead of Scotland and Wales when it comes to masks. Compare with other countries.

Scotland and Wales tried to do more than England - and good for them - but it wasn't done as well as it could have been (partly due to limitations of devolved power).

It's also as the WHO says. Vaccine and Mask Plus.

Just like a balanced diet doesn't rely on one healthy food alone.

perhaps because they weren't the best masks and/or worn and put on/taken off incorrectly

Very possibly, yes
However unless there's a push for thousands of "mask police" to accost folk to tell them they're wearing the wrong ones (or wearing them incorrectly) I'm not sure how that can be resolved

I agree about the psychological impact too, especially with SAGE's comments about language and people not being fearful enough on record. Perhaps Boris will come up with another facile three-worder to cover this?

politicians wanted something really effective, they'd be saying it must be FFP3.

You're right they're the very best but FFP2 (equivalent of USA N95) is pretty good too.

I expect we need to hold back the FFP3s for health and social care. Unless we finally have better supplies? However they're more expensive too. FFP2 not super cheap but more affordable than the 3s.

For those on a tighter budget, whilst not as good, surgical masks still do make a difference. It all helps.

(Fabric less useful although better than nothing, and it could play a role as an extra layer over a surgical mask - plus an opportunity for those who want to dresss it up with a pretty pattern and/or to keep warm outside in winter).

However unless there's a push for thousands of "mask police" to accost folk to tell them they're wearing the wrong ones (or wearing them incorrectly) I'm not sure how that can be resolved

They seem to manage in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Africa, and East Asia. Some US states too.

I think before talk of enforcement and punitive action, leading by example would help.

Politicians including Macron (and royals, eg. The Spanish royal family) abroad are seen out and about in their masks. Worn properly.

Add in some educational ads. Brief guides showing people how it's done.

Plus free or discounted FFP2s for those on low incomes/benefits? Donations to food banks too.

Does anyone else wish that this one thread could be kept for discussion about what we do and don't know about the new variant, as its title suggests?

Instead of the constant, pointless, back and forth bickering over masks, which isn't going to change anyone's mind? It's not like there aren't at least 100 threads on that subject already.