It seems like the U.K. may have a better Covid strategy after all

[Warhertisuff]

... at least since the emergence of Delta. I generally supported the restrictions before last summer, but thought that opening up in July was sensible. It's too early to tell
for sure, but at the moment it looks like the right call.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59378849

Presumably if European countries are having surges in infection now, their death rate will catch up with ours.

But they are putting in mitigations in these other countries. Masks are a lot more widespread and they bring in restrictions where cases are really bad/hospitals really struggling which can nip it in the bud quicker. You get these surges with Covid.

@Kikkomam

I read the title of the thread and came to see the OP get a pasting. Remember we aren't allowed to do even a tiny bit OK in anything on Mumsnet, OP

Haha! Yes, it was guaranteed, wasn't it.

People falling over themselves to slag off Boris/government when the actual story here is around the decision - backed by the experts - to open up 'fully' in July, rather than waiting, to try to avoid the worst of the pressure arriving in mid-winter.

So yes, at the moment it does look like it may have been a great decision. We can only wait and hope...

Have a look at the testing rate in the UK compared to other countries. We test way more asymptomatic people, so inevitably we pick up more positive results.

This is false, Europe would have higher hospitalisation and death rates than us if our cases were lower than theirs but just being found by testing.

Have a look at the testing rate in the UK compared to other countries. We test way more asymptomatic people, so inevitably we pick up more positive results.

Yes, but there's still tons of cases every week and a lot of deaths.

Cases are still rising just as we enter winter and the weather starts to turn and we're doing nothing to prevent it. Other countries are putting in plenty of measures.

Oh I see, if we had private healthcare this would all be fine

[quote rrhuth]@Bagamoyo1 most western European countries are putting mitigations in place.

UK has had 1000 deaths per week for a long time now. And ignored it.[/quote]
In fairness, most countries never removed them. The countries where things are going "well". Portugal, Spain, Italy.
Cases are rising, yes. Far more to do with the fact that all of these countries are now reaching the time when the vaccine efficiency is waning and there's a rush on boosters.

If this gets us through winter without restrictions or lockdown then I’ll be relieved and appreciate the different strategy

Merkel is keener on lockdown but hasn’t got long to go before leaving

Quite @bagamoyo1

If we had a system backed up with personal insurance and means tested payments we wouldn't have people dying in ambulances either.

[quote rrhuth]@Bagamoyo1 most western European countries are putting mitigations in place.

UK has had 1000 deaths per week for a long time now. And ignored it.[/quote]
I wonder if other countries lie about the deaths as we do here. In the UK we have deaths “with Covid” not “from Covid”, and we count them in the stats. Criminally misleading. As a doctor I was told to record deaths as Covid deaths even before the tests were available, on elderly patients who died of chest infections.

From a science, data and fact perspective we wont know until this is background noise globally. So not for years.

I think all we can do then is use the data for the next pandemic.

I think we should have stayed in masks indoors in the UK. Or least over Autumn winter. But it's too late now in peak flu / dieing waiting for a ambulance season.

Either way we are all on our own paths now so no point at that stage thinking we need to go for zero covid or do a Austria. We diverged on our path too long ago

@rrhuth

Have a look at the testing rate in the UK compared to other countries. We test way more asymptomatic people, so inevitably we pick up more positive results.

This is false, Europe would have higher hospitalisation and death rates than us if our cases were lower than theirs but just being found by testing.

Yep. In some European countries, no self-administered tests are permitted, and ALL test results are recorded centrally. So, the figures for, say Italy last Friday- 2% positivity on just over half a million tests doesn't equate at all to this constant British "we do more tests" (In any case, as the only useful data is % of the whole rather than total positive cases, to factor in population difference- the number of tests doesn't matter- the % of positivity matters, and if you haven't got Covid to start with, your test isn't going to be positive)

If this gets us through winter without restrictions or lockdown then I’ll be relieved and appreciate the different strategy

Yeah, if we manage through winter okay then the strategy has definitely paid off.

We'll have to see where we are when we get to Christmas/January.

@Bagamoyo1

That myth has been debunked a thousand times.

Excess deaths prove it. Available for all on the ONS site.

We thought we were in a better position than mainland Europe last April / May with cases at a pretty low level having weathered a hard winter. Then Delta came here and we've had a terrible run ever since and thousands have died.
Don't count your chickens until they've hatched is what I would say to you. We have NO IDEA what is coming next in this pandemic. I'm not being pessimistic, because you might well be right, but until it happens we just don't know how the rest of winter 21/22 is going to play out.

I think the summer opening made sense.

Someone posted the excess death charts for lots of countries on another thread. I think it was equidor that was so heartbreaking. It was up near 50%. Europe, including us has a heathcare system and vaccinations.

I agree we need to wait and see if we get through Dec and Jan with no lockdown. That would be great.

@rrhuth

Oh I see, if we had private healthcare this would all be fine

I’m just saying that comparing a system which is even just partly private, with a fully state funded system, is like comparing apples with oranges. I’m surprised you find that difficult to understand. As a GP, the number of people wanting to see me each day would massively reduce if people had to pay. It’s simple maths. People might queue up to buy a drink for £2. If you start charging £20 for the drink, the queue will get a lot shorter, as all the people who can only afford £2 will go without.

I think the summer opening made sense.

That was the right call. Winter, it's a case of wait and see.

But we're a laughing stock, right? Every single person in Italy/China/Peru gets up every morning and their first thought is "let's see how the UK is doing" so they can spend the day chuckling at our ineptitude, right? While all the people in Austria, the Netherlands, France are obediently sitting in their houses doing exactly what they're told or wearing their top notch masks, while we don't bother, or just wear it under our noses, right?

We're PLAGUE ISLAND, home to exponential growth, carnage and bodies piling high, right?

@rrhuth

I guess if you think high deaths are a good idea, yes.

The UK could have chosen to limit deaths and NHS pressure by e.g. keeping masks but Johnson was happy with 1000 deaths per week.

I think the neurological impacts on young people will also be far more widespread in the UK.

The UK is not just England. Scotland and Wales never stopped wearing masks and rates have been consistently higher in both countries than England throughout. Wales had the second highest infection rates per 1000 in the world a few weeks ago. Masks are pretty useless - at least the disposable or DIY made ones.

But they are putting in mitigations in these other countries. Masks are a lot more widespread

I think people need to wake up to the fact that not enough of the UK population cares as much about people dying as people actually having a life. If we were that bothered we would be voluntarily wearing masks (and wearing them where currently mandated, e. Transport). Absolutely nothing to stop people wearing them.

[quote PAFMO]@Bagamoyo1

That myth has been debunked a thousand times.

Excess deaths prove it. Available for all on the ONS site.[/quote]
So am I imagining the conversations I’ve had with the coroner?

I’m surprised you find that difficult to understand

In Denmark you pay 20 to see a GP. After 100 a year everything is free. People on very low incomes don't pay. It's a good system.

yes i do @MarshaBradyo