Vaccinations to made a legal requirement in Austria from Feb 2022

[littlelordfuckleroy]

Days after Austria imposed a lockdown on the unvaccinated, it has announced a full national Covid-19 lockdown starting on Monday.

Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg said it would last at least 10 days and there would be a legal requirement to get vaccinated from 1 February 2022.

Jesus. I'm shocked by that. I'm not an antivaxxer but I still very concerned that a country could make any vaccine a legal requirement! I feel it's a step too far.

@MaxNormal

For these regions, forced vaccination seems like the only way unfortunately

The poor man who died was double vaccinated so I can't for the life of me see how forcing others to have it will make a blind bit of difference.

So the more people who are vaccinated, the lower the overall transmission (and average viral load) others will be exposed to, is the general premise of that argument.

He was in a particularly risky situation being an ICU doctor, and
I imagine exposed to a much high viral load for a much longer time period than the average person.

Not a justification for mandatory vacccination though.

This is never going to happen here. Not with this libertarian government and it’s laissez-faire attitude to the virus. Bringing it up on here is just anti-vaxxers building strawmen. It’s sad to see this forum become populated by anti-vax related threads. Guess it’s a positive sign that most normal people without a conspiracy to pedal think the worst is behind us.

This is never going to happen here. Not with this libertarian government and it’s laissez-faire attitude to the virus

Would you prefer if it were mandated?

Also it's not really a strawman if its actually happening. Okay not in the UK but we've seen how where one country goes others follow repeatedly over the last 20 months.

I can't see how even the most pro covid vaccinated think this is could be o.k.

They have gone further and further down the path over the course of the past year and a half, justifying one restriction after another in the name of the good of the many.

Some of the most fundamental building blocks of liberal democracy are freedom of movement, freedom of association and congregation, freedom of expression, and bodily autonomy. Again and again we've seen little and then bigger inroads around these things, more in some countries than others. People have become used to the idea that it is ok and even laudable to restrict these and anyone who doesn't do it willingly is an enemy to society.

It's the boiled frog problem, and also sunk costs. They've justified so much, if they don't carry on they might lose all the value of that.

I've really wondered how far such people would carry it on. Maybe forcing the unvaccinated to live in designated areas of the city together? Taking their kids, vaccinating them, reeducating them in boarding schools? If that's what it takes?

It's struck me very forcefully over the past year the extent to which people now seem completely unaware of the history of civil liberties and why they are important.

@XenoBitch you're not being selfish in the slightest. I totally and utterly understand why you don't want the vaccine. I think anyone with an iota of imagination and empathy would understand. Take care x

LobsterNapkin

I'm also in Canada, it's very disturbing what's happening here

I'm almost more disturbed by the seeming mass compliance than the rules themselves.

There is so little dissent here.

Of course the media are largely responsible for this. I can't find anything that doesn't fit the government narrative.

On that note I've recently stopped using google for searches.
I'm using duckduckgo and it's very interesting how much more relevant and varied the results are on the situation,

The fact that citizens can't leave the country unless they are vaccinated and can't travel domestically by train or air is outrageous.

I see that Australia has a similar policy in place for all international travel so perhaps Canada is emulating them.

When I read about what's happening in Austria it doesn't sound that dissimilar to the situation in Canada and I can totally see them instituting fines here in the future.

Trudeau is trying to pass an internet censorship bill which would further silence any dissent from citizens.

Through all of this I have also learned that The Canadian Charter of rights and freedoms has no value whatsoever.

@MaxNormal

For these regions, forced vaccination seems like the only way unfortunately

The poor man who died was double vaccinated so I can't for the life of me see how forcing others to have it will make a blind bit of difference.

Source please?

This article mentions that he was vaccinated.

Also clearly reported as doubled vaccinated here:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/surgeon-who-died-covid-double-25501745.amp

If 90% of people in UK are double vaccinated and some with 3rd jab or booster and the majority of people in hospital/in ICU/dying are unvaccinated it seems pretty clear that you are safer with the vaccine that without.

[quote userperuser]Also clearly reported as doubled vaccinated here:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/surgeon-who-died-covid-double-25501745.amp[/quote]
But would he also have died if the person from whom he contracted Covid had been vaccinated and therefore would likely have carried a smaller viral load? It's really more complicated than saying: The vaccine doesn't prevent Covid, ergo it's pointless to get it.

[quote theworldsgonefeckingmad]**@userperuser* maybe they should start fining obese people for putting a strain on the NHS when they start fining unvaccinated  I bet @ancientgran* won't agree though [/quote]
I'm just about as old as the NHS, I believe in it and have benefitted from it throughout my life. Had the benefit of polio jabs in the 50s along with all the other vaccines that came into use. I do remember the kids in calipers and the smallpox epidemics. Maybe I see more value in the NHS and vaccination than some. I even remember when the NHS was really free at the point of use i.e. no prescription charges but carry on and make a joke of it.

@userperuser Those with elevated BMI have had nearly 2 years to address this and if it continues to be ignored the issues it’s causing will continue including poor outcomes for the high BMI fully vaccinated.

The point is that many haven't, including our PM who said he was going to lose weight when he came out of ICU but he's fatter than ever.

At the moment which is going to help more and faster? You can go and get a jab today, in a few weeks you have antibodies. How long will it take an obese person to get down to a healthy weight, more than 2 or 3 weeks I think but I've never needed to go on a diet so maybe you can work it out for us?

ichundich

He could have contracted it from somebody vaccinated or unvaccinated.

Nobody has said that the vaccine doesn’t prevent covid but it does only reduce transmission and does not eliminate it, even 100% will not eliminate it and reduced transmission is pointless to the individual who contracts it.

ancientgran

That’s the point, people are not addressing risk factors so why should people be compelled to protect them? Is it not selfish to continue to present a problem that you could address by reducing your risk?

@ktel1

LobsterNapkin

I'm also in Canada, it's very disturbing what's happening here

I'm almost more disturbed by the seeming mass compliance than the rules themselves.

There is so little dissent here.

Of course the media are largely responsible for this. I can't find anything that doesn't fit the government narrative.

On that note I've recently stopped using google for searches.
I'm using duckduckgo and it's very interesting how much more relevant and varied the results are on the situation,

The fact that citizens can't leave the country unless they are vaccinated and can't travel domestically by train or air is outrageous.

I see that Australia has a similar policy in place for all international travel so perhaps Canada is emulating them.

When I read about what's happening in Austria it doesn't sound that dissimilar to the situation in Canada and I can totally see them instituting fines here in the future.

Trudeau is trying to pass an internet censorship bill which would further silence any dissent from citizens.

Through all of this I have also learned that The Canadian Charter of rights and freedoms has no value whatsoever.

That is shocking and depressing

This is never going to happen here. Not with this libertarian government and it’s laissez-faire attitude to the virus.

Well I'd rather live here with the government having that attitude than somewhere where I'll be fined or imprisoned for choosing not to have a vaccine

@Hairwizard

What worries me is the lack of any condemnation from uk gov over this.. genuinely worried. Anyone still thinks this is all ok really needs a fucking wake up call.

They cannot afford to criticise any other country now for whatever draconian measures are brought in as to do that would e to shine a light on their own strategy and open it up to scrutiny, they will never allow that to happen.

@userperuser

ancientgran

That’s the point, people are not addressing risk factors so why should people be compelled to protect them? Is it not selfish to continue to present a problem that you could address by reducing your risk?

The NHS is in crisis now and it is going to get worse in the coming weeks as all the normal winter issues raise their ugly heads. Expecting obese people to lose enough weight in time to make a difference is pointless, many of these people need psychological help to achieve a healthy weight but even if it is more straightforward it will take months.

The crisis is here, not some imaginary date in the future. If you need urgent surgery for some serious condition next month but there is no room for you in ICU because of covid sufferers who refused the jab will that be OK or would you hope to get the health care you need?

Of course there are also other vulnerable people who can do nothing about their risk.

ancientgran

Then the vaccine and other preventative measure should be targeted at the at risk groups in the short term and the issues being caused by conditions induced by lifestyle in the longer term.

I need surgery. I am not in pain but very uncomfortable. I have been given a probable date of June 2022 to have it om the NHS. I am now either going private or having it in another country over Xmas. ( It is not weight loss surgery by the way).

@LobsterNapkin

I can't see how even the most pro covid vaccinated think this is could be o.k.

They have gone further and further down the path over the course of the past year and a half, justifying one restriction after another in the name of the good of the many.

Some of the most fundamental building blocks of liberal democracy are freedom of movement, freedom of association and congregation, freedom of expression, and bodily autonomy. Again and again we've seen little and then bigger inroads around these things, more in some countries than others. People have become used to the idea that it is ok and even laudable to restrict these and anyone who doesn't do it willingly is an enemy to society.

It's the boiled frog problem, and also sunk costs. They've justified so much, if they don't carry on they might lose all the value of that.

I've really wondered how far such people would carry it on. Maybe forcing the unvaccinated to live in designated areas of the city together? Taking their kids, vaccinating them, reeducating them in boarding schools? If that's what it takes?

It's struck me very forcefully over the past year the extent to which people now seem completely unaware of the history of civil liberties and why they are important.

They have built camps in Australia for the un-vaccinated to quarantine in now.

I think your idea of living in designated areas of the city together is not far from the truth.

@ancientgran The NHS is in crisis every single year.

We actually have a fantastic uptake of vaccine - over 80%. according to the ONS around 9/10 people have have been double jabbed. Last year when there was no vaccines the NHS scrapped through - now we have the vaccines so those pressures are just not there. The situation we was in last year is totally different to right now. We are in a much much better situation.

According to the ONS the infections rates are falling week on week.

The vast vast majority of people with covid - over 98% can deal with covid with over the counter medicine.

You and others like you have to stop the scaremongering.

@userperuser

ichundich

He could have contracted it from somebody vaccinated or unvaccinated.

Nobody has said that the vaccine doesn’t prevent covid but it does only reduce transmission and does not eliminate it, even 100% will not eliminate it and reduced transmission is pointless to the individual who contracts it.

reduced transmission is pointless to the individual who contracts it.

Not quite - the concentration of viral load you're exposed is a predictor of clinical outcome. It has been demonstrated that on average, viral load is higher, and infectivity persists for a long duration in those unvaccinated compared to vaccinated.

So being in an environent with many unvaccinated patients at work may well have been a factor due to the potentially increased exposure.

But as I said - not justification for mandatory vaccination,

@TomelettewithGreggs

I need surgery. I am not in pain but very uncomfortable. I have been given a probable date of June 2022 to have it om the NHS. I am now either going private or having it in another country over Xmas. ( It is not weight loss surgery by the way).

That is terrible.

I had an impacted wisdom that needed to be removed under GA, they gave me a wait time of 11 months.

In the end it got so bad I had to have it done under local privately, definitely would not recommend the experience.