Why are things ' kicking off ' in Europe ?

[genuinequestion21]

Please excuse my ignorance. But why is Germany for example stressing so much about covid right now ?

I think we have more cases per 100 k than them and have been having high cases for months and we are still open and not ' that much ' talk about lockdown etc. It seems we are kind of just about ' OK '. Well at least we aren't going to plan B yet.

However in Germany there have been few cases and cases are now exploding and there's talk of lock downs etc.

Hospitals also seem to be full again. Whereas in the UK, they don't seem to be on the brink.

Why these differences ? Germany and UK have a very similar proportion of the population vaccinated. Is it because cases are seeming to go up very rapidly, whereas ours have been high but flat for ages ?

Why are their hospitals full again and ours are not ?

Please correct any factual information which is incorrect.

@Abitlost2

How could mm acted earlier , we have literarly just reopened our society in Ireland! I do think there should have been heavy investment in icu capacity in the meantime. I see compliance everywhere , plp are v v v zealous here and i have yet to see anyone not wearing a mask in a shop. The media and annoncements are constant re being careful and rules etc.

I wonder why people are so ultra zealous in Ireland... Everywhere else seems to be weary, either reluctantly complying or demonstrating against restrictions!

@Puppalicious Apologies that was for @stayathomer

OP, I wondered this too, although other European countries have all been way more cautious and pro-active than us. I wonder if our crisis is in the post but trying to stay positive as loving now being in lockdown!

I’m cautiously optimistic the UK has taken the right road. Opening up in Summer looks like a shrewd move (thus far).

Also encouraged by things such as London having a low vax uptake but also relatively low cases because of natural immunity perhaps?

Restrictions in Europe over the summer have been quite minimal though - mainly mask wearing indoors/on public transport and a push for more home working. If numbers are kicking off now - probably down to schools (in some places the mask edit was removed) and more indoor socialising now the weather has got cooler - I can't see how UK will be different. We don't want numbers to get like UK (though I think they are worse now in many places)

@MissAmbrosia we have had a lot of infection over the summer so more natural immunity is the hope.

People keep saying about the weather getting cooler - surely it was too cold for us to socialise outside from October onwards!

@MissAmbrosia

Restrictions in Europe over the summer have been quite minimal though - mainly mask wearing indoors/on public transport and a push for more home working. If numbers are kicking off now - probably down to schools (in some places the mask edit was removed) and more indoor socialising now the weather has got cooler - I can't see how UK will be different. We don't want numbers to get like UK (though I think they are worse now in many places)

The U.K. has had a very different trajectory regarding case numbers, having coasted at consistently high, though not overwhelming, numbers since the summer. We're no more doomed to take their path as Europe was to take our path since the summer. There have been countless posts on how Europe was being far more cautious than we were. Hopefully a combination of infection-derived immunity over the past months and boosters will spare us a European-style crisis.

I wouldn’t comply with further lockdowns- like many other scientists, I understand the nature of pandemics and immunology.

Actually, although I know there are lots of super-cautious people here, I think that opening everything in July was a good move. We've had high, but manageable, rates of infection consistently, and now non-diagnosed health issues account for a significant number of deaths, pretty much back in line with normal death rates if you screen out the cancers, strokes and heart attacks. Friends, double vaxxed, have COVID now, and one is proper poorly but without underlying health problems, she should be better in a week or so. Her husband has a bad cold. They are late 60s, so not the youngest, but quite fit and healthy.

Jens Spahn, Germany's Minister of Health, said today that by the end of this winter, "Germans will be recovered, dead or vaccinated". That sounds to me like acceptance of reality hitting home.

@XingMing

Jens Spahn, Germany's Minister of Health, said today that by the end of this winter, "Germans will be recovered, dead or vaccinated". That sounds to me like acceptance of reality hitting home.

To me (in Germany), it sounded like a strong, memorable line in his speech designed to stick in people's minds and maybe scare more people into getting vaccinated. It wasn't "recovered, dead or vaccinated" - it was "vaccinated, recovered or dead", and the word order in German is important. It's normally what is known as "3G" - "Geimpft, Genesen oder Getestet" - "vaccinated, recovered or TESTED" and is what you have to be to get into museums, go to the restaurant etc. You hear these three Gs listed like that ten times a day here, so hearing the final G (tested) suddenly replaced with "dead" is a good shock to end the sentence. Reality hitting home, yes, but not resigned acceptance.

Ah powerful message and clever use of words. Thanks for explaining @ravenmum

I agree @ravenmum - thank you for explaining so clearly - each political culture is so different that it definitely needs more than a language translation sometimes if that makes sense?!

Although I don’t speak German so I do need the language translation too! 😂

I agree ravenmum, sounded like a powerful speech. Not banging on about about Peppa Pig makes it a winning speech too...

I don't speak German but do other languages and spend a lot of time working between them and translating. BBC's use of 'cured' as a translation rather than 'recovered' wound me up disproportionately last night.

I agree ravenmum, sounded like a powerful speech

Spahn‘s performance during Covid has been dire. He would never have survived in UK.

One of the main reasons for vaccine refusal among older and more vulnerable demographics in Germany was his much publicised assertion in January that AstraZeneca was only 8%.effective in over 65s. He made this assertion to deflect attention from Germany‘s (his) dismal vaccine procurement record. No matter that he tried to row back subsequently - the damage was done.

There has been a repeat of his poor messaging this week with people turning down booster doses of Moderna because they think that Pfizer is more effective. GP practices are tearing their hair out with the number of people phoning up to discuss the relative merits of the different types of vaccines and cancelling and rebooking appointments. You could not make it up!

And in defence of the BBC „cured“ is a perfectly accurate translation of „genesen“.

Spahn has the panache of a potato, true, so I don't know if this wording was luck or intention, but I think it's good nonetheless!

Europe’s witch hunt against AZ is what’s put them on the back foot timing-wise. Because of those delays they now face this wave in winter instead of late summer / autumn.

[quote doorornottodoor]**@KarenTheGammonRemoaner* not speaking for @Nanalisa60* but no, I wouldn’t. Not with death rates low as they are and a big uptake of boosters in the older population/vulnerable.

But maybe you could clarify what you’re asking in a bit more detail?[/quote]
But what gives you the right to go against government guidance?

But what gives you the right to go against government guidance?

What gives the state the right to tell people they can't see their elderly relatives? They govern by consent, at a certain point, there isn't enough consent. We don't owe it to the state to do anything that they happen to think is justified, they are just people we choose to do a job.

@KarenTheGammonRemoaner guidance being the key word!

Oh and I followed it all the first and second time around. Wear a mask every day for work and out and about. But will not lock us and my kids away again.

It feels like you’re being goady with your very short responses with little or no context

Thanks for the explanation @ravenmum . I read the German press but read what he had said here first. In one German article this morning it was very critical of his poor choice of words, basically saying everyone has lost respect for him, so he doesn't care anymore. But, actually, swapping out the third G is a powerful message.

I would agree with @Underparmummy , there is a difference in meaning between 'cured' and 'recovered' . You can be cured of cancer but I think Covid is something you recover from.

@SecretKeeper1

Europe’s witch hunt against AZ is what’s put them on the back foot timing-wise. Because of those delays they now face this wave in winter instead of late summer / autumn.

Italy suspended AZ for about 8 days. I had both AZ in March and May. Big place Europe. You should try visiting it sometime. Educate yourself.

It's not tactful, but I don't think it should be!

What makes you think our hospitals aren't on the brink?

They are absolutely on the brink.