Why are things ' kicking off ' in Europe ?

[genuinequestion21]

Please excuse my ignorance. But why is Germany for example stressing so much about covid right now ?

I think we have more cases per 100 k than them and have been having high cases for months and we are still open and not ' that much ' talk about lockdown etc. It seems we are kind of just about ' OK '. Well at least we aren't going to plan B yet.

However in Germany there have been few cases and cases are now exploding and there's talk of lock downs etc.

Hospitals also seem to be full again. Whereas in the UK, they don't seem to be on the brink.

Why these differences ? Germany and UK have a very similar proportion of the population vaccinated. Is it because cases are seeming to go up very rapidly, whereas ours have been high but flat for ages ?

Why are their hospitals full again and ours are not ?

Please correct any factual information which is incorrect.

I really don't get it either. Things have been so strict here and a much slower reopening than in the uk and ovet 80 percent vaccinated at least... It's so disheartning tbh and people are so zealous about it here, I'd go as far as say I have met many here who enjoyed the lockdowns ...

I recently saw Gibraltar has vaccinated 100% of the adult population but yet they have introduced restrictions (cancelling large gatherings). What will it take to end all covid restrictions if the whole adult population is fully vaccinated?

@Hairbrush123 An understanding of the nature of pandemics, immunology and some hard critical thinking.

If you were told that to be able to ever live a normal life you would have to accept a 0.05% chance of death from a new threat before 83 years old, would you?

[quote CamQ]@Hairbrush123 An understanding of the nature of pandemics, immunology and some hard critical thinking.

If you were told that to be able to ever live a normal life you would have to accept a 0.05% chance of death from a new threat before 83 years old, would you?[/quote]
That’s what I’m pretty much doing now. I’ve been learning to live with covid with mitigating measures eg washing hands, keeping up-to-date with vaccines, avoid going into crowded, poorly ventilated areas unnecessarily.

@SilverGlitterBaubles

The right to be treated by the NHS is being shafted from under our noses. The Johnson government’s Bill due before parliament this week. Among other shady things it removes the statutory duty on the Health Secretary or on the new NHS Boards to provide hospital care.

If this really happens. And I'm hearing about it elsewhere ...

If this really happens this government will be voted out at the next election. They are becoming very unpopular already but this will be the last straw.

Abitlost2
I honestly think theyve been tiptoeing up until now, they were afraid to tell people to limit their activities and contacts and have all but cut public service announcements remind people of the basics. Sure MM was only telling us the other week we wouldn't be going backwards and contact tracing in schools was to be scrapped. That to me was weak leadership and head in the sand. All over fb are pictures of people eg at matches and runs all leaning in close to each other. I work in retail and we have to tell a number of people a day to pull masks up or put them on. The general conversation is 'god I hope they don't put us into lockdown, we deserve this'. We have groups congregating, hugging, the lot, then they come to the till and say they can't believe covid numbers

@stayathomer , I definitely disagree about there being heads in the sand. I move between Irish and UK jurisdictions and the difference in media reporting is extraordinary. In Ireland, it’s constant front page news about how terrible it all is, in the UK, you might see a story on page 7 about how high the numbers are, but don’t worry, vaccinations have still broke the link between cases and deaths/hospitalisations.
I think Ireland was one of the few countries that didn’t have full matches and nightclubs open until the last month or so. We should probably have had them open earlier, in the summer, perhaps with antigen testing (like many European countries) but as I said I think they thought vaccinations would cure everything (bit bonkers to have a full reopening date of 22 October, right as all activities move inside!) There are a lot of people in Ireland - I think like yourself @stayathomer ? - who would like to see them never open.

@Abitlost2

I really don't get it either. Things have been so strict here and a much slower reopening than in the uk and ovet 80 percent vaccinated at least... It's so disheartning tbh and people are so zealous about it here, I'd go as far as say I have met many here who enjoyed the lockdowns ...

Is it the fact that Ireland had such long harsh restrictions and was slow to open up over summer that has caused the sudden spike in infections now. In contrast everything has been open in tv UK since the famed 'freedom day', nightclubs, huge festivals, no mask mandate, no vax passports. We have had sustained high cases since summer rather than one giant leap now entering winter. Of course this has also caused sustained pressure on the NHS which is not in good shape but I think this was the plan and time will tell if it has paid off.

There are a lot of people in Ireland - I think like yourself@stayathomer? - who would like to see them never open.
Puppalicious Of course I want things open!! My kids have missed out on a HUGE amount and I haven't seen my brother or sister in 2 years (sister very vulnerable and not nearby) and I've only seen my mother once(elderly and vulnerable), my husband is on treatments that kill the immune system and we have to watch everything but people don't have to go about life exactly like it's 2019, they can pick their places, go when things are less busy, socially distance, wash hands and hand sanitse. That's what we've done, tried to make things semi normal for the kids but while watching our steps. It just seems like people have decided they're just not doing that anymore.

puppalicious and I didn't mean the media, they're the opposite, I work in a newsagents/bookshop and they use horrible wording that scares people, stark, grim etc, and that's not necessary either, we need a medium (not a happy one). I meant mm acted too late and people dont listen to the government anymore thsts all. Hope you're keeping well

@Puppalicious It is understandable under your personal circumstances that you would choose to be more cautious. However given people have endured the longest hardest lockdown in Ireland, the huge compliance with the restrictions and fantastic uptake with vaccines to now being told this is still not good enough is it any wonder that people are fed up?

Sorry to hear about your husband, stayathomer, this must be so tough for the vulnerable.
@SilverGlitterBaubles , undoubtedly that’s part of the reason. I’m not sure our health system could sustain the constantly high UK numbers though. Oddly, despite the high vaccination rate, our numbers have been consistently higher than mainland Europe throughout the Autumn. It’s unclear whether this is spillover from the UK as we have an open border with NI which has very high numbers, behavioural as vaccinated people are no longer scared of covid (and for the large majority of people of course there is little to be scared of) or something else. It’s a bit of a mystery. Now the case numbers are through the roof and god knows how the health system will cope.

@SilverGlitterBaubles - I don’t think your last message was for me?

In contrast everything has been open in tv UK since the famed 'freedom day', nightclubs, huge festivals, no mask mandate, no vax passports.

@SilverGlitterBaubles this is wrong information.
You are talking about England. Other nations have opened at a slower rate, particularly NI.
Wales and Scotland still have facemasks and vaccine passports but don't seem to be doing any better than England

How could mm acted earlier , we have literarly just reopened our society in Ireland! I do think there should have been heavy investment in icu capacity in the meantime. I see compliance everywhere , plp are v v v zealous here and i have yet to see anyone not wearing a mask in a shop. The media and annoncements are constant re being careful and rules etc.

Also, and I know this is so cynical, but i know some plp who quite enjoyed the whole pup payments....some people were getting almost the same money for not working....

All we can really do at the moment is hope that opening up fully over the summer will help with the winter.

I don’t know about anyone else but I’ve had two colds since September and felt utterly rotten with both. I’m wondering if it’s going to be a bad winter for respiratory viruses etc as I can’t really remember the last time I had a cold (since these two).

Of course this has also caused sustained pressure on the NHS which is not in good shape but I think this was the plan and time will tell if it has paid off.

I don't think there is any way around the fact that countries are going to have to consider how they can beef up their health services. It's common to many that there has been a focus on efficiency that meant there is little excess capacity, and with covid as a long-term reality, they are going to need more capacity in certain areas.

It's not fair to health care workers that they have been so pressured, but it's due to earlier decision making rather than because there must exist some capacity to get rid of covid, which seems to be the way a lot of people are thinking. We need this, so it must be possible - it's magical thinking.

It probably also requires a wider look at health approaches. Things like obesity need a hard look and the fact is there is no pill or vaccination there. The kinds of things that are at fault are, of course, food habits, but also basic lifestyle issues. People too busy to cook, eating out or in the car. Kids not walking to school or playing out. Video games and internet use.

No one wants to deal with all that though. It's harder than a vaccination.

And yet they opened up fully equipped Nightingale Hospitals, at great expense, and promptly closed them down. I know this was deemed to be a lack of staff, but surely someone could have thought of that beforehand.

And yet they opened up fully equipped Nightingale Hospitals, at great expense, and promptly closed them down. I know this was deemed to be a lack of staff, but surely someone could have thought of that beforehand.

The Nightingale Hospitals had no staff other than what could be borrowed from the already overworked hospitals. Likewise the equipment, which was begged, borrowed and removed from the regular hospitals. A service that already has over 100,000 vacancies could not suddenly magic up thousands more staff to work in these "hospitals" which were no more than glorified holding facilities - just political "Potemkin" hospitals.

@mybodymychoice

Thinks are kicking off in Europe because people are trying to defend our rights and freedoms and they disagree with everything the governments are doing. We should applaud them.

I tend to agree with that. I would not be supportive of any more lockdowns here (England).

@Nanalisa60

My DH and myself both test positive on Wednesday, I have a mild head cold and DH has no symptoms at all nothing. We are both double jabbed another month till we get third jab. I will not be happy if any more lockdowns happen in the Uk.

But you will comply, right?

@KarenTheGammonRemoaner not speaking for @Nanalisa60 but no, I wouldn’t. Not with death rates low as they are and a big uptake of boosters in the older population/vulnerable.

But maybe you could clarify what you’re asking in a bit more detail?

No I will not comply to another lock down, I have taken my vaccinations and the flu one and will have the booster one next month. But if I’m toId can’t have my family for Christmas because of another lock down I will be ignoring it.

Not with death rates low and uptake of vaccines high. I really feel we just have to live with Covid.

I would not comply with another lockdown. Obviously if shops and other places were closed then I would have no choice there, but I will never again be told not to see my elderly mother and my sister. I will go out and see people if I like.

Why are there so many lockdown lovers on here?