Why are things ' kicking off ' in Europe ?

[genuinequestion21]

Please excuse my ignorance. But why is Germany for example stressing so much about covid right now ?

I think we have more cases per 100 k than them and have been having high cases for months and we are still open and not ' that much ' talk about lockdown etc. It seems we are kind of just about ' OK '. Well at least we aren't going to plan B yet.

However in Germany there have been few cases and cases are now exploding and there's talk of lock downs etc.

Hospitals also seem to be full again. Whereas in the UK, they don't seem to be on the brink.

Why these differences ? Germany and UK have a very similar proportion of the population vaccinated. Is it because cases are seeming to go up very rapidly, whereas ours have been high but flat for ages ?

Why are their hospitals full again and ours are not ?

Please correct any factual information which is incorrect.

I think a lot of ICI beds in the U.K. are being occupied by electively unvaccinated 30-50 year olds, who have underestimated the seriousness of covid-19, from what medic friends tell me. Beds that could have been used for people who support what the NHS is trying to do for the country during these difficult times, rather than those who don’t care about the rest of society, but still expect to be saved, when they realise what a mistake they have made by not getting vaccinated.

@MarshaBradyo , I think it’s the numbers as a whole, rather than the growth - it’s been on the up for a while. That’s why I’m saying the vaccinations are not the whole of the answer. Tbh, I think a large segment of Irish society still believes there can be zero covid deaths if only we do everything right, whereas English society seems to just be resigned to those who die, dying. I think perhaps somewhere in the middle is the right approach. But working that approach out is the problem!

DH was at Twickenham yesterday, attendance over 81,000 no vaccine passports and hardly a mask to be seen on absolutely packed buses and trains to the game

Vaccine passports (or a negative LFT) were required at all Autumn tests. There were operational reasons for not checking everyone but they had to check a percentage of attendees. And they did check. That they didn’t check your husband doesn’t mean they didn’t check.

@BoredZelda

DH was at Twickenham yesterday, attendance over 81,000 no vaccine passports and hardly a mask to be seen on absolutely packed buses and trains to the game

Vaccine passports (or a negative LFT) were required at all Autumn tests. There were operational reasons for not checking everyone but they had to check a percentage of attendees. And they did check. That they didn’t check your husband doesn’t mean they didn’t check.

They did mention it on their website so DH was prepared, he knows quite a few that have been to the recent games and they were not checking.

Why shouldn’t unvaccinated people expect to be saved by the NHS. The NHS treats other people who have not made good choices, ie drug addicts, alchololics, etc., and as others have pointed out you can still get Covid even if double-jabbed.

@Malibuismysecrethome

Why shouldn’t unvaccinated people expect to be saved by the NHS. The NHS treats other people who have not made good choices, ie drug addicts, alchololics, etc., and as others have pointed out you can still get Covid even if double-jabbed.

I agree everyone has a right to be treated by the nhs. However I don't think you can compare this to addiction issues. It's now widely recognised that addiction is an illness. Many addicts would love to be able to give up and have tried repeatedly. Not the same at all as someone deciding not to take a vaccine unless it's due to a medical condition

[quote Puppalicious]@MarshaBradyo , I think it’s the numbers as a whole, rather than the growth - it’s been on the up for a while. That’s why I’m saying the vaccinations are not the whole of the answer. Tbh, I think a large segment of Irish society still believes there can be zero covid deaths if only we do everything right, whereas English society seems to just be resigned to those who die, dying. I think perhaps somewhere in the middle is the right approach. But working that approach out is the problem![/quote]
I think we’re definitely past looking for zero deaths or aiming for it at least, in England. But for a middle ground it seems even middle range measures aren’t that effective. Eg Germany have been held up as pretty good on masks etc but cases are growing quickly.

Imo high immunity is a better measure than most others as you can live fairly normally without high growth

It’s true that vaccinated people can still get covid , but there is a much higher chance of getting seriously ill and hospitalised without the vaccination. I am just pointing out what I’ve been told about ICU beds and the kind of people that are in them. These are often ironically the ones whose family members appear sobbing uncontrollably on social media urging people to take the vaccination, whilst their loved one is at death’s door or beyond. So a lot of the patients these beds are not only clogging up the system unnecessarily, but also causing grief to their own friends and family.

The right to be treated by the NHS is being shafted from under our noses. The Johnson government’s Bill due before parliament this week. Among other shady things it removes the statutory duty on the Health Secretary or on the new NHS Boards to provide hospital care.

@Decimator

It’s true that vaccinated people can still get covid , but there is a much higher chance of getting seriously ill and hospitalised without the vaccination. I am just pointing out what I’ve been told about ICU beds and the kind of people that are in them. These are often ironically the ones whose family members appear sobbing uncontrollably on social media urging people to take the vaccination, whilst their loved one is at death’s door or beyond. So a lot of the patients these beds are not only clogging up the system unnecessarily, but also causing grief to their own friends and family.

If someone is so poorly that they are receiving treatment in hospital, then they are not "clogging up the system unnecessarily" at all. If the alternate is they are suffering, or even dying at home, then they are entitled to that bed. The NHS treats people based on need, not morals.

The people bed blocking are the ones that are medically fit to be discharged, but don't have an appropriate care package in place. This will be people with things like dementia, who can't be discharged because the care homes have no staff... because a load of staff were forced to leave over not being vaccinated.

They did mention it on their website so DH was prepared, he knows quite a few that have been to the recent games and they were not checking.

They were checking.

This will be people with things like dementia, who can't be discharged because the care homes have no staff... because a load of staff were forced to leave over not being vaccinated.

Nonsense. Bed blocking because of a lack of social care has been a problem for a very long time. It has nothing to do with staff vaccinations. The number who have left for that reason is tiny, the staffing shortages are way more complex than that single issue.

Thinks are kicking off in Europe because people are trying to defend our rights and freedoms and they disagree with everything the governments are doing. We should applaud them.

@BoredZelda

This will be people with things like dementia, who can't be discharged because the care homes have no staff... because a load of staff were forced to leave over not being vaccinated.

Nonsense. Bed blocking because of a lack of social care has been a problem for a very long time. It has nothing to do with staff vaccinations. The number who have left for that reason is tiny, the staffing shortages are way more complex than that single issue.

Yes, bed blocking has been an issue for a ling time. But you would be naïve to think that it wont get worse due to the care worker vaccine mandates.

@mybodymychoice

Thinks are kicking off in Europe because people are trying to defend our rights and freedoms and they disagree with everything the governments are doing. We should applaud them.

Totally agree!

Not forced to leave. They had a choice of taking the vaccination, and keeping their job or leaving. But I take your point. By “clogging up unnecessary”, I mean they were taking a bigger risk of exposing themselves to serious consequences of the virus, and the vaccination could have prevented many of these individuals ending up I am such a bad way. It’s like drink-drivers in a near-fatal collision. Of course you treat them on need, but you’d be thinking they’d really brought this all on themselves.
A dementia patient’s care plan might be more to do with an administrative hiatus through no fault of their own.

I'm happy to completely waive my right to use the NHS in return for the threat of forced vaccination taken off the table.

Thinks are kicking off in Europe because people are trying to defend our rights and freedoms and they disagree with everything the governments are doing. We should applaud them.

That is very sweet of them, going to all that trouble to defend 'our' rights and freedoms.

I agree everyone has a right to be treated by the nhs. However I don't think you can compare this to addiction issues. It's now widely recognised that addiction is an illness. Many addicts would love to be able to give up and have tried repeatedly. Not the same at all as someone deciding not to take a vaccine unless it's due to a medical condition

Yes, well they also treat people who have skydiving accidents, are shot in organized crime hits because they are in the drugs trade, people who get sexual infections due to promiscuous sex with strangers, and so on.

They treat everyone, it hardly makes sense that they would draw the line at people who get sick from an actual pathogen that is fairly easily spread through doing just normal things.

@stayathomer , I am in Ireland too and I totally disagree they have their head in the sand, we are constantly being reminded avout how serious it is.. I am dreading us being put into lockdown again. Irelands was so strict and we have only just opened up!

I also don't get it here in Ireland, tiny population ( considering how contagious this virus is surely loads have had it at least once) , very high vaccination rate and yet I can actually see them closing down everything again... Our health service is obvs v v v weak.. can not understand with our high taxes how this is. Would love a total overhall of the hse, terribly run

@Abitlost2 when did you lift restrictions fully? Was it recently?

Most restrictions were lifted over the summer, nightclubs opened 3/4 weeks ago I think and are now closed again.. Our schools were closed for much longer than the uk/France/ Spain and there were no schools open for key workers or children with sn.

We are lucky in comparison to the UK re gp services as they are v accessable here throughout the pandemic because ( drum roll please) we pay 50 euros everytime we have to see one plus pay perscriptions !!!

@Abitlost2 I don't get what's going on in Ireland either at the moment.

I'm in Scotland and Ireland has always taken quite a canny approach, as Scottish Gov has here too. Ireland, like Scotland has very high vaccination rates.
But despite a slightly smaller population than us you currently have more than double the numbers in ICU than we have and your daily cases numbers have shot up past our recently 🤷🏼‍♀️