I have to have the vaccine or I loose my job

[wingingmumlife]

I am absolutely prepared to get flamed for this but I am really worrying.

I am 22 year years old, healthy and unvaccinated (by choice).

I am not anti-vax, I have had every single vaccine from being a child to now and my daughter is up to date with all of hers too.

I work in dentistry and myself and 4 other colleagues have been told we have to be fully vaccinated by April 2022 otherwise, we lose our jobs.

I just can't believe it has come to this. I feel like my human rights have been taken away. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I am a big believer in science but as a genuine question ... Can someone please tell me why this vaccine is being pushed so much to the point where soon we probably won't be able to even go into a restaurant without having this vaccine?

I have to wear AGP PPE every single day for every single patient but this still isn't enough?

I test myself every single day, but this still isn't enough?

Can someone please help it make sense to me? That is a genuine question.

Im not looking for an argument and I'm not wanting anyone to tell me "how stupid I am" I just want this to make sense.

For anyone wondering why I haven't had the vaccine - the main reason being, I have severe health anxiety, ironic I know since most would think I'd jump for the vaccine, but at the moment I'm more scared of this vaccine then I am of catching Covid itself.

I just feel sick to my stomach at the thought of not having a job unless I have this vaccine, it really doesn't sit well with me but everyone on here seems to be supporting it?

@Embracelife

Option 3, seek treatment for your anxiety

Agree, this will affect you with other things throughout your life as well.

Ask on the mental health boards for some good self help books. Also contact MIND. Ask GP if they can prescribe anything to help the anxiety. Get as much exercise as you can.

How did you manage pregnancy/ childbirth?

@BluebelllsRosesDaffodills I've tried medication but I don't like taking it. I struggle to take paracetamol for a head ache. Will look into MIND, thank you.

Thankfully, my pregnancy and childbirth was very straightforward and I had no complications. I was extremely worried about postpartum haemorrhage though.

The thing about health anxiety (at least my health anxiety) is that you tend to fixate on one thing. So mine is generally cancer related but throughout childbirth it was postpartum haemorrhage. I didn't worry about anything else - just that.

@ollyollyoxenfree not many people on this thread have had sympathy for my health anxiety, actually. Some have but the majority haven't.

I've been told to "get a grip" and "oh for goodness sake just get the vaccine" as if it's that simple for me. I'd love to "get a grip" but I can't.

The reason I have touched on things that you would call "typical antivax" is because those things bother me too. I do worry that this will push the NHS too far and I won't have access to health care for me and my daughter. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I do believe in vaccines but there is a little niggle in my brain that's says "what if?".

"What if I will be in the small percentage of people who develop a blood clot?"

"What if I will be in the small percentage of people who become paralysed?"

"What if I will be in the small percentage of people that die from having this vaccine?"

Those "what ifs" are hard to ignore for me.

@PinotPony

I'd highly recommend the book "Vaxxers" written by the two women at Oxford Uni who developed the AstraZeneca vaccine. A fascinating read and it debunks a lot of the myths and misunderstandings about the vaccine. A few of the salient points:

1. This is not a "new" vaccine. Immunologists knew it was coming after SARS and MERS. They were already working on a covid vaccine but were incredibly underfunded.

1. The heavy financial investment enabled the rapid development of the vaccine. Scientists the world over raced for a solution. Ideally they wanted vaccines from several different sources to ensure that there was a range of alternatives if one didn't work. The lab at Oxford was tiny and they struggled when AZ came in to scale up the operation.

1. Usually vaccine development is linear. Likened to a roast dinner. You cook the carrots, then the potatoes, then the peas, then you display them in your window and hope someone passing offers you a chicken. With the covid vaccine, all the steps were happening simultaneously. A huge reputational risk; if one part failed, the other stages were useless too, but it was this risk that enabled rapid progress.

1. It has been through robust clinical trial. Unsurprisingly there were lots of volunteer for trials as the public were directed impacted by the virus, unlike trials of Ebola vaccine which had a poor take up in the uk. It has been tested on the elderly and pregnant women. The data has been published.

1. It's not risk free but nothing in life is risk free. Patterns of adverse events were tracked and monitored. The risks of blood clot etc are very small. You're more likely to die in a plane crash.

1. There are no "unknown long term effects". Statistically side effects from vaccines arise in the minutes, hours and days after the jab. If you're going to have a reaction, it'll be during the 15 minutes you're sat in the car park afterwards. There is no evidence that any vaccine gives you cancer or any other side effect years after it is administered.

1. It will happen again. We've had three major viruses in 20 years. We need to be better prepared for next time.

Thanks Pinot, is it easy enough to read, or full of scientific jargon?

But @wingingmumlife, every one of those ‘what’s ifs’ apply if you catch covid when unvaccinated and you’re at a higher risk of all of them

I know your anxiety isn’t logical, but if you’ve been able to rationalise the risk of clots and death from covid, are you able to rationalise the smaller risk from vaccination?

If you have this level of health anxiety, this is the wrong profession for you, as many posters have already said. But you insist your anxiety takes priority over public health.

You are right that sympathy for those with anxiety is thin on the ground. Tends to be that way when millions have died and billions have taken the vaccine.

'@ollyollyoxenfree not many people on this thread have had sympathy for my health anxiety, actually. Some have but the majority haven't.'

Maybe they have their own anxiety about health eg if they have a heart attack or are in a car crash later today they won't get an ambulance for hours or a hospital bed because they're all being taken up by unvaccinated covid patients. That's what you should really be worrying about, that could be you, it could be your family.

[quote wingingmumlife]@ollyollyoxenfree not many people on this thread have had sympathy for my health anxiety, actually. Some have but the majority haven't.

I've been told to "get a grip" and "oh for goodness sake just get the vaccine" as if it's that simple for me. I'd love to "get a grip" but I can't.

The reason I have touched on things that you would call "typical antivax" is because those things bother me too. I do worry that this will push the NHS too far and I won't have access to health care for me and my daughter. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I do believe in vaccines but there is a little niggle in my brain that's says "what if?".

"What if I will be in the small percentage of people who develop a blood clot?"

"What if I will be in the small percentage of people who become paralysed?"

"What if I will be in the small percentage of people that die from having this vaccine?"

Those "what ifs" are hard to ignore for me. [/quote]
Yes, and as I've said, the what-ifs are a part of health anxiety that is completely beyond your control, I totally get that and am really sympathetic to it. I don't think you should have the vaccine if you're not comfortable.

But you really don't seem to want to explore or understand why having this vaccination included in those required for HCPs will be helpful in terms of protecting patients and reducing pandemic-induced issues in the UK.

@BluebelllsRosesDaffodills Thanks Pinot, is it easy enough to read, or full of scientific jargon?

A very easy read, lots of cooking analogies to simplify! I listened to the audiobook which made it even easier to digest.

My favourite excerpt was when one of the scientists was camping with her children during a break in lockdown. Queuing at the pizza van, she overheard another mother say "Well, we just don't know what's in this vaccine do we?"
She invited them to join her for a slice so she could explain exactly what ingredients she'd put into the vaccine. 😂

Don’t doctors have to be vaccinated against hepatitis? I know they have to have the flu vaccine too.

It’s not about you being young and healthy - that’s not going to stop you giving covid to my 70 year old mum. That’s why you have to have it - to protect your patients.

I suffer from anxiety myself - not health anxiety, but diagnosed anxiety nonetheless, so I do understand how you are feeling, and I believe you, @wingingmumlife.

I had Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, to treat my depression and anxiety - and it did help me. I still have these conditions, but they are more manageable now, and have less of an impact on my life. Might it help you, if you could either access in-person CBT, or if you looked up some of the online resources and books on CBT, to see if the techniques they teach could help you?

It’s not about being selfish, it’s about being scared.

Those things aren't mutually exclusive. You can be scared of something but recognise that it will be better if you tackle that fear, if not for your own sake then for the sake of other people. Or you can be scared and use it as a defence and reason not to budge or do anything. It's actually easy to appear giving and generous when you're doing things you're happy doing. Really generous people are brave enough to face up to things they don't want to do or are scared to do and try to do them anyway, because it's better for everyone if they do.

Can you get a medical exception op?

@YesIamTHATmum

Can you get a medical exception op?

Exemption not exception

A medical exemption for health anxiety and anti-vax bullshit? Now I have heard everything.

The OP could potentially get an exemption:

The possible reasons for exemptions are limited. Examples that might be reasons for a medical exemption are:

people receiving end of life care where vaccination is not in the person’s best interests
people with learning disabilities or autistic individuals, or people with a combination of impairments where vaccination cannot be provided through reasonable adjustments
a person with severe allergies to all currently available vaccines
those who have had an adverse reaction to the first dose (for example, myocarditis)
Other medical conditions could also allow you to get a medical exemption.

www.gov.uk/guidance/covid-19-medical-exemptions-proving-you-are-unable-to-get-vaccinated

I doubt it's like face mask 'exemptions' or else all the vaccine refusers would decide they're exempt. The exemptions seem to be severe allergies or actual medical problems.

@JaniieJones

I doubt it's like face mask 'exemptions' or else all the vaccine refusers would decide they're exempt. The exemptions seem to be severe allergies or actual medical problems.

If the problems are genuine there will be GP notes predating covid.

OP, I have sympathy for your health anxiety. You feel something profoundly irrational and illogical, and it sounds like you can't control that.

However, your health anxiety doesn't trump public health. It sounds like your health anxiety isn't compatible with your job. If I had a debilitating fear of heights, I wouldn't be able to be a tree trimmer, no matter how much I loved trimming trees. As many other have said, you signed up for this job saying that you would take vaccines as needed for public health reasons, so they're not introducing new terms into the job.

And while I have sympathy for your health anxietyanyone whose family jokes about her needing a removal van for her medical records must be quite frozen and unhappy with anxietyI have to say that I have absolutely no sympathy for the antivaxx bullshit that's crept into your posts. The armband comment was the last straw: self-pitying, martyred, historically inaccurate and deeply offensive, and out of all proportion to the situation.

Finally, herd immunity is a collective effort. It needs massive buy-in in order to work. I despair that a healthcare professional, at whatever level, can't understand that--or, perhaps what's worse, understands it but doesn't care:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/12/covid-cases-surging-europe-america-denial

I have anxiety about driving. I have tried to overcome it but I am still not a 100% confident. So I have arranged my life so I don't have to drive.

[quote wingingmumlife]@ollyollyoxenfree not many people on this thread have had sympathy for my health anxiety, actually. Some have but the majority haven't.

I've been told to "get a grip" and "oh for goodness sake just get the vaccine" as if it's that simple for me. I'd love to "get a grip" but I can't.

The reason I have touched on things that you would call "typical antivax" is because those things bother me too. I do worry that this will push the NHS too far and I won't have access to health care for me and my daughter. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I do believe in vaccines but there is a little niggle in my brain that's says "what if?".

"What if I will be in the small percentage of people who develop a blood clot?"

"What if I will be in the small percentage of people who become paralysed?"

"What if I will be in the small percentage of people that die from having this vaccine?"

Those "what ifs" are hard to ignore for me. [/quote]
It's not that you can't feel the way you do, or act the way you do. It's just that you can't expect everyone else to change things to accommodate it.

I know I had the thoughts you have about what ifs. Many of us do, I'm sure. It's just that I balance those thoughts with other thoughts and I work through the thoughts and the underlying. Thoughts are not realities. They're just information. As are beliefs and feelings. You can learn to do this too.

It's a harder path to do this, rather than to give into your health anxiety. But it would be so liberating for you, as it seems like your HA really impacts on your life.

I don't know what kind of counselling you've had but it sounds like you need to see someone who specialises in working with HA but works integratively, so can work with your negative automatic thoughts, as well as your underlying feelings and beliefs. Also to work on your limbic system which seems primed to be set off at a much lower level of threat than other people's.

But only you can do this. If you put in the effort to do this work with the zeal you have in pursuing investigations for illnesses with treatments you're not going to follow, then you'll end up succeeding.

@wingingmumlife what if you are like my sister's friend who has developed breathing difficulties as a a result of having covid. He was in early 20s and was very healthy.

Even though you are young, there is still the risk of long covid which may mean that you can't work and maybe can't even adequately care for your daughter.

The risk of long covid is higher than the risk of this vaccine.

My sister was living with me a couple of months ago for a short while. She caught covid, I never caught it from her despite the fact we lived in the same household - I wasn't particularly avoiding her either. Maybe it was luck, I don't know but I didn't catch it. There have been a few instances where I've been around someone with Covid and not caught it. My whole work place caught Covid in July - me and another colleague was the only two who did not.

Can I ask if anyone knows if receptionists in medical settings will also have to be vaccinated even though they won't come into direct contact with patients?

@wingingmumlife it is the case for nhs medical receptionists so why not dental receptionists.

www.gponline.com/covid-19-vaccination-become-mandatory-nhs-staff-1-april/article/1732659

Under regulations to be brought forward imminently, providers of CQC-regulated activity - including GP practices, hospitals, and services delivering care in patients' homes - will only be allowed to employ staff in roles involving interaction with patients if they are fully vaccinated against COVID-19.

The regulations will cover not only frontline clinical staff, but also 'non-clinical workers not directly involved in patient care but who nevertheless may have direct, face to-face contact with patients, such as receptionists, ward clerks, porters and cleaners'

[quote wingingmumlife]@ollyollyoxenfree not many people on this thread have had sympathy for my health anxiety, actually. Some have but the majority haven't.

I've been told to "get a grip" and "oh for goodness sake just get the vaccine" as if it's that simple for me. I'd love to "get a grip" but I can't.

The reason I have touched on things that you would call "typical antivax" is because those things bother me too. I do worry that this will push the NHS too far and I won't have access to health care for me and my daughter. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I do believe in vaccines but there is a little niggle in my brain that's says "what if?".

"What if I will be in the small percentage of people who develop a blood clot?"

"What if I will be in the small percentage of people who become paralysed?"

"What if I will be in the small percentage of people that die from having this vaccine?"

Those "what ifs" are hard to ignore for me. [/quote]
@wingingmumlife I have written it twice but maybe you have not read it as too many comments.
I was just wondering...have you done any research? Have you discussed with doctors?
I think you look at numbers....