Lockdown for the unvaccinated - or a full lockdown for everybody?

[PrincessNutNuts]

Which would you choose?

@littlelordfuckleroy

Austria are really taking a huge step here. Do not agree with it at all

It's really scary.

I agree, Austria are bang out of order here and I am concerned that they have done this. Really worrying.

I’d be interested to hear reaction in Austria

Plus lockdown so I guess harder to protest (if wanted)

I think the complicating factor is that some people don't produce antibodies after infection while others don't produce antibodies after vaccination. For those who do, the protection is variable and for some people it wanes quickly. If hospitals are under pressure, authorities don't have time to assess everybody's individual level of antibodies and make judgements about the chance each person might transmit covid. Instead they opt to contain the spread in the immediate term by locking down. Far from ideal but it's an emergency response to an emergency situation.

Neither and if we lockdown again I will simply ignore it

[quote WaterAndRichTea]@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal

Shielding for the vulnerable; absolutely 100% back to normal for everyone else…………….

You obviously arent Vulnerable !
This is an awful suggestion.

Lock the most vulnerable away!? AGAIN![/quote]
Seem fair tho, by and large it is them take up the hospital beds which is the issue. if everyone recovered at home we wouldn't even be talking about this we would be twisting you now lose smell/taste with cold.

To me COVID has changed how the vulnerable live the rest of us are just going to have to get on with it.

Had covid and been vaccinated.

I'm enjoying the

"Lockdown is bad.

Locking down just one group is discrimination and creates a two tier society.

Lockdown the vulnerable."

type opinions.

Neither, Britain needs to stop with the hysteria. Keep calm and carry on..... if you're vulnerable take extra care.

Austria’s moves the last few days has made me wonder where on earth we go from here. First of all they lauded the Unvaccinated lockdown, then they realised that was pointless so they said ok every one locked down but also mandate vaccination from Feb 2022.

By now including the vaccinated in this lockdown they are clearly looking to lay blame and cause division between them and the unvaccinated, what happens next will be interesting and may either pave the way for other countries to follow suit or cause governments to retreat from mandating vaccines.

My concern is how the virus evolves and adapts from this, if infections still remain high despite 99.999% vaccination rates what happens then? What other previously unacceptable infringements would governments use to try to control the waves?

Crikey Cornwall hospitals are under extreme pressure. With the government reportedly trying to keep the lid on declaring an emergency.

inews.co.uk/news/cornwall-families-offered-money-take-relatives-out-nhs-hospitals-crisis-1310155

may either pave the way for other countries to follow suit
A select few perhaps. I can't see it flying in the UK. Ti paraphrase someone on another thread, most of us would strongly defend people's right to make poor decisions with their own bodies.

Violent riots breaking out in Netherlands as lockdown beckons.

@MRex

may either pave the way for other countries to follow suit A select few perhaps. I can't see it flying in the UK. Ti paraphrase someone on another thread, most of us would strongly defend people's right to make poor decisions with their own bodies.

Not if their poor decisions stop other people from accessing healthcare and/or put us all back in lockdown. And a majority support vaccine passports which are being used everywhere in the UK except England, so far.

They don’t though. Most of the unvaccinated are young and unlikely to end up in hospital anyway. The most at risk are still the elderly (who are due boosters) and overweight/obese people (but apparently their poor health decisions are acceptable).

@halcyondays very single year the NHS is crisis point.

A few years ago one of the news papers stated we had 12 hours left before the NHS collapsed ...

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/13/nhs-england-on-its-knees-as-performance-figures-hit-new-lows

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/02/nhs-hospitals-told-to-take-unprecedented-measures-amid-winter-crisis

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/17/brexit-nhs-collapse-nurses-leave-flu-epidemic-hospitals

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/10/hospitals-on-brink-of-collapse-say-health-chiefs

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/19/nhs-collapse-former-health-minister-norman-lamb

I could go on all night.

We are actually over the worst of this. Over 80% of the U.K people are doubly vaccinated. Thats amazing. It didn't collapse when the shit hit the fan pre vaccine. And it won't collapse now we have such a high uptake of vaccinated people.

Mandatory vaccines on the basis to 'protect the NHS' is bullshit. We are over the worst of this now.

Hospitals beds are taken up by unvaccinated people of all ages. There are people in ICU in their forties and younger who would probably never have been there if they’d had their jabs.

Over 80% of people in icu are overweight or obese. Should we put restrictions on people if they’re BMI is too high? It’s for their own good because they’re higher risk and are most likely to put strain on the nhs. What do you think?

Their*

@halcyondays

Hospitals beds are taken up by unvaccinated people of all ages. There are people in ICU in their forties and younger who would probably never have been there if they’d had their jabs.

They are also taken up by smokers/obese people/alcaholics/drug users.

Who wouldn't have been there is they hadn't smoked/ate too much/drag too much/ruined their kidneys and liver ect..

Have you got a source for all the icu beds taken up for the unvaccinated under 40s in ICU?

My BIL ended up in ICU by being coked out of his face and pulling a TV on to his head once. He wouldn't have been there either if he hadn't been on a bender all weekend.

They are also taken up by smokers

Actually paradoxically the smokers are less likely to get covid.

We are double fucked if we get it. But we are less likely to get it.

Our ACE2 is too bound up for the virus to find any healthy cells. Ironic.

But recent ex smokers, fucked! May explain part of the rise in danger for pregnant women in third trimester?

@vickyc90

Sounds fair?
Really?

I hope you never become vulnerable and get ‘locked away’
Just remember what you said !!!

@bumbleymummy
@MauraandLaura

Such sweeping assumptions about the vulnerable!

And the argument about obese/smokers - surely, under that right that’s often asserted -‘body autonomy/personal freedom’ - they should be able to make unhealthy choices without repercussions or segregation - and have the right to access NHS care.

Surely anyone who needs NHS care is classed as vulnerable - pregnant, cancer patients, access to emergency treatment. And a hospital that is on its knees may not be able to treat these people effectively.

I think it’s very hypocritical to say segregate into vulnerable/not vulnerable. To state that it’s ok for those people to lose their freedom - or even their lives. And then not apply the same reasoning to vaccinated/unvaccinated.

[quote SpringKit]@bumbleymummy
@MauraandLaura

Such sweeping assumptions about the vulnerable!

And the argument about obese/smokers - surely, under that right that’s often asserted -‘body autonomy/personal freedom’ - they should be able to make unhealthy choices without repercussions or segregation - and have the right to access NHS care.

Surely anyone who needs NHS care is classed as vulnerable - pregnant, cancer patients, access to emergency treatment. And a hospital that is on its knees may not be able to treat these people effectively.

I think it’s very hypocritical to say segregate into vulnerable/not vulnerable. To state that it’s ok for those people to lose their freedom - or even their lives. And then not apply the same reasoning to vaccinated/unvaccinated.[/quote]
You’re making sweeping generalisations about the unvaccinated. Obese people are more at risk and overweight/obese people are in the majority in ICU. And I didn’t say we should restrict them. I asked you if you think we should because based on your logic irt the unvaccinated, it would make sense.

[quote SpringKit]@bumbleymummy
@MauraandLaura

Such sweeping assumptions about the vulnerable!

And the argument about obese/smokers - surely, under that right that’s often asserted -‘body autonomy/personal freedom’ - they should be able to make unhealthy choices without repercussions or segregation - and have the right to access NHS care.

Surely anyone who needs NHS care is classed as vulnerable - pregnant, cancer patients, access to emergency treatment. And a hospital that is on its knees may not be able to treat these people effectively.

I think it’s very hypocritical to say segregate into vulnerable/not vulnerable. To state that it’s ok for those people to lose their freedom - or even their lives. And then not apply the same reasoning to vaccinated/unvaccinated.[/quote]
Yeah I think you have missed my point entirel, not sure what you are going on about tbh.

Every one should have access to the NHS regardless of their illness.

I have never in my posts stated that certain people should lose their freedoms - ever.

smoker, obese, alcoholics, unvaccinated, vaccinated should all be able to use the NHS.

My biggest point is that EVERY single year the NHS is at breaking point. Its always about to collapse. Yet whilst we were at our worst at the hight of the pandemic pre vaccine - it still didn't collapse. We need even need the emergency hospitals that were set up. Now we have the vaccine - with an 80% of there population vaccine uptake - it won't either.

Its just scare mongering to get people to have a vaccine that some people feel they dont need - and tbh a lot dont need it. Remember for the vast vast majority of people - higher than 95% can deal with covid with over the counter medicine. Paracetamol and bed.

So these new measures are draconian and unwarranted. I work with there public 5 days out 7. I wear a mask and gloves. Nearly two years in and I still havnt got it. I live in a city with high rates.

@bumbleymummy so 4 out of 5 Covid patients in ICU in the Netherlands are unvaccinated - and on average 10 years younger in age than a fully vaccinated patient.