Lockdown for the unvaccinated - or a full lockdown for everybody?

[PrincessNutNuts]

Which would you choose?

@puppeteer

Maybe the situation is different in other territories.

But in the UK, or more specifically in England, the vaccination rate is so high that locking up the few unvaccinated will do little good.

Although it’s understandable to rail against those that refuse the vaccine, they probably make up a cohort that has been quite outgoing, and so they are likely to have a good natural immunity built up. By excluding them from our society, ironically we probably lower our overall immunity. Almost funny.

The U.K. has about 69% of the population fully vaccinated with two doses.

This chart is from last Friday so it's a little out of date but not much.

[quote DayKay]I watched Dr John Campbell discussing another study on the link between vitamin d status and mortality of covid patients.
There’s been so much info on this now that I wonder why we’re not all advised to take high doses. Surely this would impact on the hospitalisation rates and reduce severity for many people despite their vaccination status.
Why are the health authorities not emphasising?

www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/13/10/3596[/quote]
I'm sure he explained in a previous video that there's no money in vitamin D. I'm no expert but it's something to do with it not being an actual drug. Vaccines, antivirals, drug treatments however -> $$$$$. The sad reality is these companies profit from disease. There's no incentive to promote a cure.

It’s a disgrace. Always follow the money. It’s always more important than the lives that could be saved.

It is a disgrace.

And the OP has said
"As far as I know nobody is immune to covid"

In which case, what is the point of locking anyone down, especially based on a vaccination status.

Quite.

For those that are unvaccinated, the threat of a lockdown is probably just going to confirm their suspicions that promises cannot be trusted.

However I do agree that, if it were implemented, a large bunch of folk will be forced to get vaccinated simply to continue a normal life.

I doubt it will do much for their trust in the system. If anything, it's going to seed more of the kind of sentiment we really don't need.

This whole endeavour speaks to a misunderstanding of motivations. It is basically another short term political vote capturing exercise.

So much for following science. Maybe it was political science all along.

For those that are unvaccinated, the threat of a lockdown is probably just going to confirm their suspicions that promises cannot be trusted

There's loads of research with vaccine refusal pre-dating covid that calls out coercion as a negative way, it just re-enforces suspicion, if we're "following the science", coercion cannot be part of it.
e.g. and follow...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26626065/

[quote Flyonawalk]@Geamhradh It is precisely because previous generations suffered so appallingly that we should defend the freedoms they won.

It wasn’t just working from home etc. It was a period of accepting government bypassing democracy to tell us to stay at home. Imposed segregation from family and friends, with no room to make personal decisions. Limited reasons why we were allowed to leave our homes. And now ‘no jab no job’ for workers we applauded only last year.

It is ironic how much blind faith people put in their leaders. If a partner imposed everything I mentioned above we would hopefully recognise an abusive relationship.[/quote]
Precisely that!

I am very pro vaccines - and am double vaxxed. Yet to have my booster.

I think I'll be giving it a miss though. The more desperate governments are to force this on people, the more unsure I feel.

@SencosRshit

I am very pro vaccines - and am double vaxxed. Yet to have my booster.

I think I'll be giving it a miss though. The more desperate governments are to force this on people, the more unsure I feel.

Whereabouts are you? Somewhere with Covid passports?

Is that 69% of the total population or 69% of the population that are eligible for vaccination? Presumably under 12s would not be included in the unvaccinated lockdown?

@Sunshinegirl82

Is that 69% of the total population or 69% of the population that are eligible for vaccination? Presumably under 12s would not be included in the unvaccinated lockdown?

Only population immunity indicates anything useful.

A percentage of some of the population is meaningless to the point of being unhelpful.

It leads people to believe that most people in the U.K. are vaccinated.

When in fact we haven't even reached 70% yet.

And it's why people expect to get the benefits of a fully vaccinated population before we've got anywhere near it.

We need at least another 20% if we want to live with minimal NPIs

And if allowing a million detected cases a month allows a more transmissible variant to emerge that can out-compete Delta, then even that might not be enough.

@PrincessNutNuts We need people to be immune to the virus - either by vaccine or recovery after infection. Most children are immune now. Wasn’t it estimated that over 70% of children had been infected over a month ago?

Only population immunity indicates anything useful

So vaccination rates are irrelevant, the vaccination is not effective enough to reach population immunity even if 100% of people were vaccinated.

( with some caveats of course as we don't know an actual population immunity level that is required for covid in the UK, but there's little evidence that it's below 80% )

@SpringKit

And can someone please explain the rationale behind ‘we are being manipulated, controlled and coerced by the government’ while in the same breath displaying a tweet of a video that has been manipulated to control people’s thinking with misinformation?

This!!! God it's starting to drive me nuts. It's as bad as Brexit. I keep needing to take social media breaks because it's causing me high blood pressure!

It already is advised to take vitamin D in the winter months in the UK, but I agree it could be more widely emphasised and the link to protection from covid made clear. I got us all taking it last autumn (and then forgot)

@sirfredfredgeorge

Only population immunity indicates anything useful

So vaccination rates are irrelevant, the vaccination is not effective enough to reach population immunity even if 100% of people were vaccinated.

Vaccination rates in part of the population seem to mislead a lot of people.

Vaccination is highly effective.

Two doses s more effective than one dose.

Three doses is more effective still.

But you need a high level of population immunity to be able to return to something resembling a 2019 normal without all the covid chaos, illness, and death.

The lower your population immunity the more NPIs are needed.

Effective in relation to reducing the risk of serious illness, not as effective irt prevebting infection/spread.

[quote bumbleymummy]@PrincessNutNuts We need people to be immune to the virus - either by vaccine or recovery after infection. Most children are immune now. Wasn’t it estimated that over 70% of children had been infected over a month ago?[/quote]
Medical science has so far been unable to find anyone who is immune to covid.

They have found a gene that means you are more likely to get a severe illness.

Ok. So how do you think we’re going to achieve a “high level of population immunity” then?

@bumbleymummy

Effective in relation to reducing the risk of serious illness, not as effective irt prevebting infection/spread.

Vaccines are highly effective at reducing transmission.

They will be even better when we have a high % of the population vaccinated.

That's why schools are driving the spread of covid, and cases drop every time schools are shut. - because most of the people in schools are unvaccinated.

Three doses is more effective still

Let's go for 4.

The main problem for me with the "vaccinate everyone" narrative, is that the coercion on people who will be at a tiny risk of needing hospital treatment will prevent people who are at much higher risk from covid from getting the vaccine as coercion is harmful, you might get 5% extra 20 year olds to have a vaccine, but that achieves little difference in hospital demand or deaths compared to the 0.5% of male 50 year olds who react negatively to the coercion and avoid it.

And vaccine passports will also achieve nothing against 50 year old men anyway, they're too privileged to get challenged if they ignore it.

The vaccine is pretty good at preventing that 50 year old overweight man from needing to go to hospital when they get covid, but all the vaccine does in the 20 year old is delay when they get covid, stop focussing on the young and find strategies to increase take up in the more vulnerable - coercion is not the strategy, the "science" has repeatedly told us that coercion and vaccine mandates are ineffective.

@bumbleymummy

Ok. So how do you think we’re going to achieve a “high level of population immunity” then?

By vaccinating a high percentage of the population.

@sirfredfredgeorge

Three doses is more effective still

Let's go for 4.

The main problem for me with the "vaccinate everyone" narrative, is that the coercion on people who will be at a tiny risk of needing hospital treatment will prevent people who are at much higher risk from covid from getting the vaccine as coercion is harmful, you might get 5% extra 20 year olds to have a vaccine, but that achieves little difference in hospital demand or deaths compared to the 0.5% of male 50 year olds who react negatively to the coercion and avoid it.

And vaccine passports will also achieve nothing against 50 year old men anyway, they're too privileged to get challenged if they ignore it.

The vaccine is pretty good at preventing that 50 year old overweight man from needing to go to hospital when they get covid, but all the vaccine does in the 20 year old is delay when they get covid, stop focussing on the young and find strategies to increase take up in the more vulnerable - coercion is not the strategy, the "science" has repeatedly told us that coercion and vaccine mandates are ineffective.

If people have been living their best life and enjoying the covid chaos of the last two years then great.

Not getting vaccinated keeps that going.

But if they want to go back to normal then luckily they have it in their power to help get there.

None of us who want to end the covid chaos in education, repair the covid social damage, let the NHS get back to doing its normal work, stop the covid economic downturn, and stop our lives being dominated and hampered by covid All The Flipping Time aren't getting vaccinated for other people.

We're doing it for ourselves.

Because we want this to end.

And vaccine passports will also achieve nothing against 50 year old men anyway, they're too privileged to get challenged if they ignore it.

That’s your opinion, maybe it would apply in the UK if they introduced vaccine passports, but it’s certainly not a universal truth.

Where I am a bloke (or woman) regardless of age won’t blag or bully their way into a cinema, restaurant or even a hospital for an out patients appointment without showing their vaccine passport…..