Lockdown for the unvaccinated - or a full lockdown for everybody?

[PrincessNutNuts]

Which would you choose?

Just thinking about it the virus moves in waves with people movement

It will get higher growth depending on level of immunity in population when it hits

This could be vaccination or acquired immunity

It’s that that has higher impact that masks etc which is why Germany is high despite NPI and Wales is higher than England

And London has been lower on map for some time

waning immunity would also make sense actually in terms of Israel, us then Germany/France/Italy

The problem with this narrative is that it's completely opposite the data which is published which keeps on asserting that cases are high in the unvaccinated and breakthrough infections are a minority of the cases.

If it was waning immunity it would not be the same - unless there's something about super-spreaders and the vaccinated - ie super-spreaders dominate spread and are much more common in older individuals who were previously infected. But there's absolutely nothing to support that view.

But wait, sanluca is saying that an unvaxxed adult couldn’t go in without proof of vaccination.

no I am not. i said: proof of vaccination, proof of recently been tested negative or proof of having had the virus. This is all registered with the Dutch health service who issues a qr code in an app. Show the code, show ID and you can get in. So unvaccinated but tested (which is free) you can attend..

As for the people saying who goes to Santa this early, learn something about other cultures. This is Sinterklaas, who actually is the inspiration of the Coca cola version of Santa. Different days, different traditions.

I do completely agree it is vile to show crying kids to try and make out they are being excluded because of unvaccinated parents. Having lived through years of Sinterklaas with my kids when they were young, a lot of kids cry when it is Sinterklaas. This is a childrens feast, a tradition centered around young children. The excitement is through the roof, my kids were like energizer bunnies from mid November till the 5th. Tears are always very near during those days.

Neither

This is quite interesting too

Higher vaccination rates are darker green

Some countries with stark upwards lines are higher rates

Sanluca

It was a shorthand response to a previous suggestion that it was because they didn’t have tickets, not because of vaccine status.

Actually, do we really know what was going on in that tweet?

@UsedUpUsername

Sanluca

It was a shorthand response to a previous suggestion that it was because they didn’t have tickets, not because of vaccine status.

Actually, do we really know what was going on in that tweet?

A shorthand response? No. It was claiming that Sanluca had said the polar opposite of what she had really said, presumably in order to discredit her information.

@UsedUpUsername

Sanluca

It was a shorthand response to a previous suggestion that it was because they didn’t have tickets, not because of vaccine status.

Actually, do we really know what was going on in that tweet?

I can't find the tweet anymore, so I can't tell you if it was right or wrong, but I can tell you how it works. I live here. In my village, instead of Sinterklaas arriving by boot in the village as he usually does, he took a tour in an open car through the village with his Pieten and all the kids could come and watch him go by and run around like headless chickens with excitement.

In other towns and cities they took the decision to limit the number of attending adults and as required by Dutch law, every adult had to show their qr code. Some events also presold tickets so that it was clear if you could get in or not. You still had to show your qr code if you were over 18.

This qr code is used to access restaurants, musea, cinema's etc but not shops or schools or work. It is not a bad setup imo.

We don't have daily riots. We actually rarely have protests at all. Maybe Amsterdam or the Hague in the weekend and in odd places every now and then (mostly males who are itching for a fight it seems) but the rest of the country just gets on with their lives.

I see Italy is joining the countries about to launch an unvaccinated-only lockdown.
At what point does this start to feel uncomfortable?

@MaxNormal

I see Italy is joining the countries about to launch an unvaccinated-only lockdown. At what point does this start to feel uncomfortable?

Is it? You'd think they'd have told those of us living here. Chuh.

Debating it currently, so I'll be hugely surprised if it doesn't happen.

Telegraph link

Ok.
So, governors of 5 regions want to impose restrictions (like Austria, so potentially can go to work, school, shopping and church etc) on the unvaccinated.
Presumably including Friuli where the anti Vax movement has a strong hold and completely coincidentally I'm sure, their numbers are rising.
Let's not exaggerate eh?

Ok so having read the Italian press, a governor of Lombardia on a current affairs talk show has said he thinks the regions with high numbers should talk about bringing in further restrictions on the non vaccinated and he's going to propose it at the next regional governors' meeting.

Let's not exaggerate eh?

Why be sarky? Why can no-one actually have a normal conversation on here any more without getting pissy in some way?

Because people like posting misinformation or their own agenda heavy interpretation on things and it gets tiresome.
Only yesterday someone posted that schools here were all closing again. Totally untrue.
Even the Telegraph link didn't say what you said it did. What you wanted it to say to fit your agenda. Sorry for spoiling your fun.

What you wanted it to say to fit your agenda

What agenda is that? Being scared?
Unvaccinated only lockdowns are already happening in Austria and mooted in parts of Germany, and are now as you say under discussion in some regions of Italy so my agenda is what, I accidentally jumped the gun slightly wrt one country?

@MaxNormal

What you wanted it to say to fit your agenda

What agenda is that? Being scared?
Unvaccinated only lockdowns are already happening in Austria and mooted in parts of Germany, and are now as you say under discussion in some regions of Italy so my agenda is what, I accidentally jumped the gun slightly wrt one country?

Have you actually read what the "unvaccinated lockdown" in Austria involves? Clue: it's not a lockdown.

I think it's likely that a lot of countries are considering imposing more restrictions on the unvaccinated rather than more restrictions on the fully vaccinated.

Including our own.

Have you actually read what the "unvaccinated lockdown" in Austria involves?

Would you explain to me your understanding of what it involves?

Whatever you want to call it, it's disgusting discrimination of those who don't want to inject a substance into their body.

I think it's likely that a lot of countries are considering imposing more restrictions on the unvaccinated rather than more restrictions on the fully vaccinated.

Which will do little because vaccinated people can still continue to transmit the virus (and many unvaccinated people are already immune).

As far as I know nobody is immune to covid.

Maybe the situation is different in other territories.

But in the UK, or more specifically in England, the vaccination rate is so high that locking up the few unvaccinated will do little good.

Although it’s understandable to rail against those that refuse the vaccine, they probably make up a cohort that has been quite outgoing, and so they are likely to have a good natural immunity built up. By excluding them from our society, ironically we probably lower our overall immunity. Almost funny.

@MaxNormal

Have you actually read what the "unvaccinated lockdown" in Austria involves?

Would you explain to me your understanding of what it involves?

Not my understanding, but what I've learned from the posters who live there.

I watched Dr John Campbell discussing another study on the link between vitamin d status and mortality of covid patients.
There’s been so much info on this now that I wonder why we’re not all advised to take high doses. Surely this would impact on the hospitalisation rates and reduce severity for many people despite their vaccination status.
Why are the health authorities not emphasising?

www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/13/10/3596