Lockdown for the unvaccinated - or a full lockdown for everybody?

[PrincessNutNuts]

Which would you choose?

It was a compromise to not take away a major event from the kids and try and minimise the spread.

A bit mean to put up black out barriers so people who couldn’t get in couldn’t even watch from a distance - vaccinated or not!

[quote SpringKit]@sanluca

Yes, which sounds sensible to me!

But the tweet was inflammatory - implying that there was some sort of high barrier being put up to keep out the unvaccinated. And that wasn’t the case. The video was being manipulated - the children were crying because the event was sold out! It’s the exaggeration that annoys me, the deliberate manipulation.

I lived in Netherlands for a couple of years, loved my time there. Groetjes from the UK.[/quote]
But wait, sanluca is saying that an unvaxxed adult couldn’t go in without proof of vaccination.

You should follow a 24-hour rule with any news headline or viral tweet you see. Often it’s more complicated or patently untrue, but people often move on before the real story comes out.

It’s basic media literacy everyone should practice though. It’s unfortunately nothing new

@bumbleymummy

It was a compromise to not take away a major event from the kids and try and minimise the spread.

A bit mean to put up black out barriers so people who couldn’t get in couldn’t even watch from a distance - vaccinated or not!

Do you think they should do the same at football matches or pop concerts? Sell out to the people who had the foresight to pay and then let the numpties who didn't stand (in a crowd presumably) to watch? I didn't book my plane ticket and the flight is full. Shall I insist I stand in the aisle and go free?

@UsedUpUsername

Very true. But to be fair, the poster putting the original tweet is rather famous for her late night confirmation bias googling of that well known and reputable bastion of truth- Twitter.

And it's normal in the EU, all over the EU that vaccinated or not you have to show pass/negative test/recovery cert for any kind of event/place where distancing isn't possible. Sanluca doesn't say at all that the "unvaxxed needed proof of vaccination" She says:
"These events were limited entry and adults had to either be vaccinated, had the virus or had been tested to be able to go into the venue. Kids under 12 were exempt of this ( but no kid above 12 wants to be seen at such an event anyway). This in accordance to the Dutch rules." = A Covid pass. Issued if you satisfy one of the 3 main criteria in most countries, 2 in others (those which don't accept recovery certificates)

@UsedUpUsername - vaccinated, or had the virus, of had a recent test. Which I guess is the same as festivals here.

But to use children crying as some sort of tyranny of the vaxxed v’s the unvaxxed, high barriers being put up to keep out the unvaxxed is inflammatory and ridiculous.

Sorry, missed your quote
"But wait, sanluca is saying that an unvaxxed adult couldn’t go in without proof of vaccination."

Missing that point here, but what kind of parents take children to a Santa event that they don't have tickets for, what on earth are they thinking? It's just guaranteed to cause upset.

@SapereAude Well quite often at outdoor concerts you do get people without tickets hanging around, listening to the music etc. I mean it’s obviously not the same experience as people who pay for it but it’s not like it’s unusual. Your plane analogy is a bit silly. Not the same thing at all. I still think putting up black barriers to stop kids catching a glimpse of Santa from a distance is a bit mean just because they don’t have tickets. It would be mean any year.

What are people doing going to a Santa event this early anyway

[quote SpringKit]@UsedUpUsername - vaccinated, or had the virus, of had a recent test. Which I guess is the same as festivals here.

But to use children crying as some sort of tyranny of the vaxxed v’s the unvaxxed, high barriers being put up to keep out the unvaxxed is inflammatory and ridiculous.[/quote]
Yeah we got a distorted story from the PP but now it seems we have a more complete picture. Sadly this is a very common thing (always has been).

So what we should be debating so whether or not you want this sort of thing in the UK. I don’t and I think we are still not seeing eye to eye on that one 😂 (despite personally being unaffected by such rules due to having vaxx)

Missing that point here, but what kind of parents take children to a Santa event that they don't have tickets for, what on earth are they thinking? It's just guaranteed to cause upset

My understanding is again slightly different, normally Sinterklaas arrives with a parade, you just go out in the street and watch, no tickets, no nothing required.

The arrival still happened, with rich well connected still able to take their kids to it with the tickets, but the parade itself was hidden, the only reason for their being a "santa event" at all, was because of the covid restrictions, and the barriers were to prevent people who were around for the parade / or just around from gathering to watch.

@PAFMO

This is why I don't understand Boris wanging on about storms coming from Europe. Surely the UK had the storm and it's now just raining quite a lot? While Europe is entering one?

It's probably best not to try and make sense of Boris...

I looked at a couple of countries after the Prime Minister said that.

39705 Covid cases in the UK 🇬🇧
3241 in France 🇫🇷
3266 in Spain 🇪🇸
5144 in Italy🇮🇹.

I can't remember Portugal's

And France's % vaccinated is only 69% to our 67%

And their weather must be similar-ish to ours? Getting too chilly to sit outside?

Maybe that's a factor in why the covid wave often comes from east to west in Europe? Weather.

@PrincessNutNuts according to this, our testing rate is much higher than France’s

www.statista.com/statistics/1104645/covid19-testing-rate-select-countries-worldwide/

[quote bumbleymummy]@PrincessNutNuts according to this, our testing rate is much higher than France’s

www.statista.com/statistics/1104645/covid19-testing-rate-select-countries-worldwide/[/quote]
Well obviously.

The more covid you've got, the more contacts you have to test.

@PrincessNutNuts

I looked at a couple of countries after the Prime Minister said that.

39705 Covid cases in the UK 🇬🇧
3241 in France 🇫🇷
3266 in Spain 🇪🇸
5144 in Italy🇮🇹.

I can't remember Portugal's

And France's % vaccinated is only 69% to our 67%

And their weather must be similar-ish to ours? Getting too chilly to sit outside?

Maybe that's a factor in why the covid wave often comes from east to west in Europe? Weather.

Why skip the higher countries?

This is a useful chart

Cases are rising in Italy and France now so we’ll see what happens

Then Portugal and Spain but higher take up might help

It is certainly an interesting and intriguing question why Sweden/France/Spain/Italy are not following the curve of their neighbours, what is different about those, but assigning it to NPI's is hugely overstating the evidence.

Marsha

Your chart tells me that most countries in Western Europe have lower cases than the U.K.

We're now only third in the world for detected cases in the last 7 days,

Germany, with its significantly larger population has overtaken us.

(Top is the USA)

France has been having around 10k cases a day hasn't it, yesterday worldometers has it at 19k and also has around 6700 in hospital so its case ratio to hospitalisations is different

Wouldn’t it just be higher incidence travelling with people crossing into the country near to them?

So now the wave is travelling east to west

@sirfredfredgeorge

It is certainly an interesting and intriguing question why Sweden/France/Spain/Italy are not following the curve of their neighbours, what is different about those, but assigning it to NPI's is hugely overstating the evidence.

It's always a combination of factors.

NPIs make things better.

Taking them away makes things worse.

That was to SirFred

Europe is a fast changing situation as you can see with Austria and Germany

We’ll see re Italy and France but then as I said higher vaccination in P and S

Wouldn’t it just be higher incidence travelling with people crossing into the country near to them?

I don't think so, 'cos UK and Ireland and France has lots of travel connections, Netherlands and North East corner of france are so close that the lag doesn't really work. Sweden is of course east. I don't think we can simply say it's a "wave moving east" factor.

No not Sweden but mainland Europe

It is rising now in France and Italy

Why at same time as each other?

You must get a lot of road traffic, you’d have to look at numbers

Maybe maybe not

waning immunity would also make sense actually in terms of Israel, us then Germany/France/Italy