Lockdown for the unvaccinated - or a full lockdown for everybody?

[PrincessNutNuts]

Which would you choose?

If we're making up pointless random multi-choice questions, I go for (C), a massive party with wine and cake.

@zombiedog21

If we're making up pointless random multi-choice questions, I go for (C), a massive party with wine and cake.

Quite.

With "2G" being made law in Austria, and under consideration in the Netherlands and Germany, it's quite likely it will also end up here in the U.K.

So it's more topical and pertinent than random and pointless.

If you take away NPIs and have a "Freedom Day" then at some point those chickens will come home to roost and harder restrictions have to be implemented.

Particularly if your policy heavily relies on immunity that you were told would wane months ago but did nothing much about.

And your policy requires much higher vaccination levels than you've got because groups like Us For Them have politicised vaccination of under 18s leading to delays in the rollout. And your booster rollout is being outpaced by glaciers.

(The name "2G" refers to the two g's in "gevaccineerd" and "genezen" - Dutch for vaccinated and recovered. The Netherlands currently uses the 3G system in which people who tested negative ("getest") for Covid-19 can also get an access pass. The 2G system takes that test option away.)

This is a few days old but you can see that most countries are a long way from the 90% of the population fully vaxxed which might allow us to live with covid without NPIs like ventilation, masks, and wfh in place

Maybe make the vaccine more accessible? Just a thought.

@tigger1001

"During the first U.K. lockdown didn't we all work, go for walks and do our shopping"

No. Many, many people were furloughed as their place of work was closed. That was lockdown. Being able to go to work, because no workplace is closed because of covid is a far cry from lockdown in March 2020.

What Austria are proposing is vaccine passports by another name. The language is interesting and is designed to get people to comply. It's far more scary to people to say they will be locked down if no vaccine rather than say they need to show proof of being vaccinated to get into leisure places.

I completely forgot about furlough.

We've had so many lockdowns they've all blurred into one and I don't think we know anyone who was furloughed.

You're right. It's a vaccine pass system called 2G.

France led the way. When they made it compulsory to show a pass to get into cafes and cinemas etc their vaccine centres had queues outside.

Austria is experiencing similar apparently.

It won't have any impact on the tiny percentage who believe whackjobbery like Bill Gates has put a microchip in covid vaccines, and who have adopted "Unvaccinated" as their political identity.

But it motivates those who were wary and just wanted to wait a bit, to get it done.

I thought the lockdown for unvaccinated people in Austria also bars them from leaving their homes unless for work, shopping for basics, or a walk round the block?
So no socialising? Having people in their homes?

@XenoBitch

I thought the lockdown for unvaccinated people in Austria also bars them from leaving their homes unless for work, shopping for basics, or a walk round the block? So no socialising? Having people in their homes?

No, it's not as Draconian as that. Posters in Austria explained it in the other thread, and possibly on this one.

It was always possible to meet people in private, indoors and out, up to a max number of households. Adults in a relationship are considered one household

Unlike the UK lockdowns.
History will not be kind towards these.

The Prime Minister just re-upped his we don't know when the European wave will "wash up on our shores" rhetoric.

The stark increase in Europe shows mitigations some people want won’t do much

Germany and Austria for instance, with ‘proper’ masks, passes etc

It’ll likely travel across east to west. Spain and Portugal may fare better with higher vaccinations

It’s no advert for ‘NPIs’ though. Otherwise Germany would be ok

Better bet is higher immunity. So booster here, which is the main message from JVT etc, tg.

@PrincessNutNuts

This is a few days old but you can see that most countries are a long way from the 90% of the population fully vaxxed which might allow us to live with covid without NPIs like ventilation, masks, and wfh in place

Stats tell you what you want to see.

In the uk we are not vaccinating under 12's so of course the vaccinated % is lower if you then include them. I'm in Scotland and there is 90.5% of the population over the age of 12 with at least one dose of the vaccine here. That's an incredible uptake of the vaccine. 90% of the people eligible for the vaccine have taken it.

The unvaccinated (not through medical reasons) don't really care, so they wouldn't adhere to a lockdown. If I had to choose for one group though, I would choose for the unvaccinated to be locked down.

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

The unvaccinated (not through medical reasons) don't really care, so they wouldn't adhere to a lockdown. If I had to choose for one group though, I would choose for the unvaccinated to be locked down.

Such a sweeping and unfair generalisation.

Neither. It don’t think lockdown for the unvaccinated would work. What about all the under 12’a who haven’t been offered the vaccine at all?

@MarshaBradyo

The stark increase in Europe shows mitigations some people want won’t do much

Germany and Austria for instance, with ‘proper’ masks, passes etc

It’ll likely travel across east to west. Spain and Portugal may fare better with higher vaccinations

It’s no advert for ‘NPIs’ though. Otherwise Germany would be ok

Better bet is higher immunity. So booster here, which is the main message from JVT etc, tg.

Here's an informative article about Germany and their "Freedom Day"

www.spiegel.de/international/coronavirus-in-deutschland-wenn-impfverweigerer-auf-ein-land-ohne-politische-fuehrung-treffen-1636729575-a-1495255a-25af-4b8e-9727-4ea7f26db55f

But @tigger1001

90% of the population you're choosing to count in a limited area of your choice doesn't butter any parsnips when over 90% of everybody in the whole country is what's needed.

YouGov

@Dentistlakes

Neither. It don’t think lockdown for the unvaccinated would work. What about all the under 12’a who haven’t been offered the vaccine at all?

Us For Them nobbled the JCVI.

Killing off the viability of a vaccine only strategy.

And leaving us dependent on restrictions.

Us For Them nobbled the JCVI

What do you mean exactly? You are granting a lot of persuasion here to a group over experts, can you back it up with evidence / proof?

@tigger1001

"I'm in Scotland and there is 90.5% of the population over the age of 12 with at least one dose of the vaccine here. That's an incredible uptake of the vaccine. 90% of the people eligible for the vaccine have taken it."

Yes, we're one of the most double vaccinated places in the world and yet here we go again with cases on the up while hospitalisations remain high. The problem might be that it's taken nearly a year to achieve it meaning that by the time we're vaccinating the last group: the first group is needing boosters. Seems to me the whole process needs to speed-up considerably but I appreciate it's easier said than done.

@PrincessNutNuts

But *@tigger1001*

90% of the population you're choosing to count in a limited area of your choice doesn't butter any parsnips when over 90% of everybody in the whole country is what's needed.

But you can't vaccinate the whole population yet. It's not offered to under 12s.

It's that simple. England is only just below Scotland in 87.7% of the over 12's having had at least one vaccine. The uk as a whole is 87.9% of the over 12's. That's a massive uptake in the vaccination.

"Yes, we're one of the most double vaccinated places in the world and yet here we go again with cases on the up while hospitalisations remain high. The problem might be that it's taken nearly a year to achieve it meaning that by the time we're vaccinating the last group: the first group is needing boosters. Seems to me the whole process needs to speed-up considerably but I appreciate it's easier said than done."

I think you have a valid point.

Add in that the vaccinations of the 12-15 group, at least locally, was shambolic, it certainly didn't make it easy to get it done. We ended up travelling out of our local
Nhs trust area to get a vaccine for my eldest.

People are being asked to travel miles to get the flu vaccine and the covid booster if eligible rather than going to the vaccination centre less than a mile away from their home. That will invariably put people off getting it done. There is also confusion, again certainly locally, as to who qualifies for a booster.

Decisions the government has made about who to vaccinate and when don't change the fact that to have a hope of population immunity you need over 90% of the population to be vaccinated.

Which is what the governments "Vaccine Only" strategy relies on.

Without it, a vaccine only will fail, and NPIs and restrictions will be needed.

Neither