Page 10 | Lockdown for the unvaccinated - or a full lockdown for everybody?

Original poster

PrincessNutNuts · 15/11/2021 11:49

@MarshaBradyo

The official tally of cases is that only about 9.5 million of us have had covid.

At a rate of about a million a month currently.

But the REACT study, ONS and ZOE consistently find significantly more.

So either we've got a lot more covid floating around now than earlier in the pandemic, OR covid infection has been grossly underestimated for most of the pandemic.

Most people who had covid in the first half of 2020 were not tested.

So most of them won't know if they are reinfected.

Covid cases and deaths in the first wave are an under estimate.

OP posts:

Original poster

PrincessNutNuts · 15/11/2021 11:52

@MarshaBradyo

Some posters do advocate lockdowns, when majority don’t, it’s just a fact

Not something to get all mystical about.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone advocate for a lockdown on here,

But you should totally quote me if I ever do it.

OP posts:

Thewiseoneincognito · 15/11/2021 11:52

@ILookAtTheFloor

No lockdown ever again for any one.

They were a huge mistake and the history books will judge accordingly.

The first lockdowns were necessary.

History will not be kind to our inept governments poor leadership in managing Covid right now though that’s for sure.

Covidworries · 15/11/2021 11:53

@marshabradyo

I mean that innthe daily released figures for covid cases, hospitalisations and deaths they only include 1st infections and obv deaths with in 28days of first positive test.

So if person A had covid 12 months ago and has just contracted it ad end of october they wont count in case rate, if they end up in hospital they wont count as a covid admission and if they die they wont count in the released covid death numbers

MarshaBradyo · 15/11/2021 11:54

Yes they have. Nanny I think wanted one in July / Aug I can’t remember all its fairly standard for some.

Yes we don’t catch all Covid cases as so many are asymptomatic. That isn’t new information though?

Original poster

PrincessNutNuts · 15/11/2021 11:55

@MarshaBradyo

I've told you why, many times.

At least once on this thread.

Experience has taught me it's a pretty good indicator.

OP posts:

MarshaBradyo · 15/11/2021 11:57

[quote Covidworries]@marshabradyo

I mean that innthe daily released figures for covid cases, hospitalisations and deaths they only include 1st infections and obv deaths with in 28days of first positive test.

So if person A had covid 12 months ago and has just contracted it ad end of october they wont count in case rate, if they end up in hospital they wont count as a covid admission and if they die they wont count in the released covid death numbers[/quote]
Ok thanks

I think excess deaths is a better measure as days later is approximation as is in hospital with Covid

There is data on reinfection with ONS which shows it as very rare so I’m wondering where they are missing something if people think it incorrect

MarshaBradyo · 15/11/2021 11:59

[quote PrincessNutNuts]@MarshaBradyo

I've told you why, many times.

At least once on this thread.

Experience has taught me it's a pretty good indicator.

[/quote]
I know you do keep trying but I think it’s funny now - which may be an indicator too, we’re not close

I’d prefer listening to those that use data / charts or information to back up point but keep trying if you wish.

winterisaroundthecorner · 15/11/2021 12:00

What's happening in Austria isn't really a proper lockdown, is it? They can go to work/school/shopping/walks/socialise, just not allowed access to certain places. If that's what the lockdown for unvaccinated is, that's better than full lockdown for everyone.

Covidworries · 15/11/2021 12:02

Also lots of people open about not testing and carrying on as normal with symptoms so cases likely to be far higher.

Excess deaths are a good guide. And during the pandemic these have been signifcantly higher sadly.

Whats the overall hospitalisation numbers now as my understanfing is most hospitals are struggling already with the mix of covid and non covid patients

MarshaBradyo · 15/11/2021 12:03

Wouldn’t the ONS reinfection data be from people in that study?

So since that started reinfection has been very low, rare even

Original poster

PrincessNutNuts · 15/11/2021 12:14

@winterisaroundthecorner

What's happening in Austria isn't really a proper lockdown, is it? They can go to work/school/shopping/walks/socialise, just not allowed access to certain places. If that's what the lockdown for unvaccinated is, that's better than full lockdown for everyone.

During the first U.K. lockdown didn't we all work, go for walks and do our shopping?

OP posts:

LemonSwan · 15/11/2021 12:17

Honestly I think everyone just needs to buy some Zoono.

I have never had covid even though I work in a high risk environment. I have tested 3 times a week from when testing came out in 2020, and had antibody testing late summer 2020. So for half of this I wasnt vaccinated.

We have had very few incidences and they have had no spread. Even the delta. The only issues we have had is residents who went into hospital and retuned.

We all wash our hands at the beginning of the day and apply the foam which is 24 hr protection. The workplace gets sprayed every 30 days with the 30 day hard surface protector. The same should be done at schools and all over workplaces, supermarket trolleys should be getting sprayed, pubs/ restaurants etc.

For all the money spent on all this, I have no idea how this is still an issue.

LemonSwan · 15/11/2021 12:19

And so no I dont think anyone should lockdown. I just think we should spray everywhere.

FawkesThePhoenix · 15/11/2021 12:20

What next...lock up all the people who've chosen not to have the flu vaccine, segregate the the children who's parents haven't allowed them to have their childhood vaccines?

It genuinely scares me that people call 'the invaccinated' selfish and would happily allow them to be locked away. You do not know why unvaccinated people have chosen NOT to have the vaccine. There could be so many reasons and yet they're branded selfish.

PurpleDaisies · 15/11/2021 12:21

@LemonSwan

Honestly I think everyone just needs to buy some Zoono.

I have never had covid even though I work in a high risk environment. I have tested 3 times a week from when testing came out in 2020, and had antibody testing late summer 2020. So for half of this I wasnt vaccinated.

We have had very few incidences and they have had no spread. Even the delta. The only issues we have had is residents who went into hospital and retuned.

We all wash our hands at the beginning of the day and apply the foam which is 24 hr protection. The workplace gets sprayed every 30 days with the 30 day hard surface protector. The same should be done at schools and all over workplaces, supermarket trolleys should be getting sprayed, pubs/ restaurants etc.

For all the money spent on all this, I have no idea how this is still an issue.

It’s a respiratory virus primary spread through the air. No matter how fancy the surface sanitiser is, it won’t affect people breathing in virus. Ventilation is where we’ve totally missed the boat, especially in schools.

LemonSwan · 15/11/2021 12:27

It’s a respiratory virus primary spread through the air. No matter how fancy the surface sanitiser is, it won’t affect people breathing in virus. Ventilation is where we’ve totally missed the boat, especially in schools.

I do agree to an extent, but the proof is in the pudding really.

We have quite poor ventilation. And I assume this is across the board in the sector. As you would know if you have ever been in a care home; they are notoriously poorly ventilated because the residents kick up hell and high fury if theres even the whiff of a draught anywhere.

So whilst I do agree it wont stop every single case of close contact. It will stop quite a lot of public place transmission.

Testing and masks are the only way to stop close contact transmission IMO.

Original poster

PrincessNutNuts · 15/11/2021 12:53

I read a statistic somewhere that covid outbreaks in Ireland are associated with under 400 buildings out of 2.5 million.

Some building are better at storing covid in the air.

If covid is present in a busy loud bar, or a school music room during choir practice. or a cinema that doesn't filter the air, or an office building where the windows don't open then lots of people will catch it.

Covid is airborne.

I don't know of a single case traced to fomites on surfaces.

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XenoBitch · 15/11/2021 13:04

@FawkesThePhoenix

What next...lock up all the people who've chosen not to have the flu vaccine, segregate the the children who's parents haven't allowed them to have their childhood vaccines?

It genuinely scares me that people call 'the invaccinated' selfish and would happily allow them to be locked away. You do not know why unvaccinated people have chosen NOT to have the vaccine. There could be so many reasons and yet they're branded selfish.

Yeah, it is getting tiresome trying to explain some of the reasons why someone is not having the vaccine.. but they still get written off as selfish anti-vaxx nonsense. My reason is personal to me, yet I have had people lump me in with the people who are handing out leaflets outside of schools. I know someone who is anti-vaxx, is buying into all the conspiracy theories etc.... but she had the jab to keep her job.

Warhertisuff · 15/11/2021 13:05

@LemonSwan

And so no I dont think anyone should lockdown. I just think we should spray everywhere.

Covid is airborne... Yes, it's theoretically possible to catch it from surfaces, but the route to becoming infected from it is convoluted...

Believing that some fancy surface spray is protecting you from Covid is a bit like thinking putting skimmed milk in your tea will keep you slim whilst eating a huge slabs of cakes every day.

Hairwizard · 15/11/2021 13:10

Neither. Lockdown is a load of bollocks.

Time to move on.

Sparklingbrook · 15/11/2021 13:18

@Hairwizard

Neither. Lockdown is a load of bollocks.

Time to move on.

I see your point TBF.

Original poster

PrincessNutNuts · 15/11/2021 13:29

There's a lot of focus on what people don't want.

When all that matters is what is necessary.

And if a country doesn't implement sufficient NPIs then they increase the likelihood of harder restrictions being necessary.

No matter what people want.

OP posts:

tigger1001 · 15/11/2021 13:32

"During the first U.K. lockdown didn't we all work, go for walks and do our shopping"

No. Many, many people were furloughed as their place of work was closed. That was lockdown. Being able to go to work, because no workplace is closed because of covid is a far cry from lockdown in March 2020.

What Austria are proposing is vaccine passports by another name. The language is interesting and is designed to get people to comply. It's far more scary to people to say they will be locked down if no vaccine rather than say they need to show proof of being vaccinated to get into leisure places.

MarshaBradyo · 15/11/2021 13:37

@tigger1001

"During the first U.K. lockdown didn't we all work, go for walks and do our shopping"

No. Many, many people were furloughed as their place of work was closed. That was lockdown. Being able to go to work, because no workplace is closed because of covid is a far cry from lockdown in March 2020.

What Austria are proposing is vaccine passports by another name. The language is interesting and is designed to get people to comply. It's far more scary to people to say they will be locked down if no vaccine rather than say they need to show proof of being vaccinated to get into leisure places.

Yes I agree with this

Work and school is still happening so closer to a Covid pass than lockdown