Mandatory vaccination

[amsadandconfused]

So I am not anti vac and have had my two doses and booster booked for next week. I do genuinely understand why a lot of my work colleagues are reluctant..Drs ,nurses ,carers etc . They are young people in their 20s/30s who are scared about the long term side effects ie infertility,blood disorders ..it’s very easy for people who are not in a job involving health care to be so critical of these lovely people .
Yes hepatitis B jab is mandatory for some but the hep jab has had many years of trials.
Can I ask everyone reading my post if you would be 100% happy if their 20 something children had this vaccine?

Fair enough, I had very poor care in hospital and assumed the people who neglected me and the others on our post op ward were a bit dim rather than unkind.

So, according to this study,
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8133799/

there is a direct correlation between low cognitive ability and vaccine refusal:

"a one standard deviation lower score in general cognitive ability was associated with a 76% greater risk of being vaccine hesitant"

I would rather the vaccine refusers left the NHS and carehomes and let them recruit for capable staff.

Interestingly, one study found the most vaccine-hesitant amongst groups that have PhDs:
www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-group-of-all-ph-d-s/

I've seen another study suggeting that outliers on both sides of the bell curve are the most hesitant, with the least hesitant clustered around the average intelligence mark.

I just hope I don't meet the one on the radio this morning who said she was not having a Covid jab because she remembered what happened with Thalidomide vaccinations in the 1950s.

Infertility thing is a conspiracy theory. So why on earth would anyone be against the vaccine for that reason?

@Helicopterlife

Infertility thing is a conspiracy theory. So why on earth would anyone be against the vaccine for that reason?

They're probably confusing the vaccine with actual COVID infection.

For example, l'm not sure about infertility but Covid has been associated with Erectile dysfunction.

I think we have gone past happiness though. The point is what else shall we do OP?

Have people forgotten how bad lockdown was? It seems some don't mind heading for another

@Helicopterlife

Infertility thing is a conspiracy theory. So why on earth would anyone be against the vaccine for that reason?

Do you have the data on that in humans? You know, like healthy babies born to the vaccinated vs unvaccinated? I've only seen rat data and there was a fertility impact (albeit smallish, 16pct from memory) and I think only for Pfizer

I've completed my family, but I like to see the data before pronouncing on anything

Here we go one care home 6 staff gone. Hope the cluckers are happy they have just made an acute situation catastrophic and with Brexit now 'done' chance of any EU staff coming and making up the shortfall second to none. I seriously think the government knows what they are doing here they will have had the impact assessment they will have a good idea of boots on the ground and they would like to crash the sector, blame it on the staff and push the elderly back to their families. Failing that just another day in Boris's madhouse wonkey trolley crashing from aisle to aisle. But the good news is they may be more manned tills open in my local Lidl no doubt.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10190187/Care-home-chaos-commences-60-000-staff-sacked-overnight.html

I see MaxNormal, your study is in America where the most compliant have a Masters and the study I've linked is based on a UK population.

Considering the Trump supporting Americans are pro gun and anti abortion, American stats are probably quite different to ours?

It's very concerning to think that there are people working with the most vulnerable who are refusing to get vaccinated.

Totally unsuited to the job.

Well past time to value such a vital role. Pay well, offer decent working conditions - and then employ safe caring carers.

Refusing to take a life and health saving vaccine when working with the vulnerable is the very opposite of care.

Time to end the reliance on exploiting cheap labour.

Offer good pay and working conditions - and reap the rewards of attracting decent caring carers.

(I provided funding options on this thread yesterday).

I'm not an anti vaxxer but I have not had any Covid vaccines. I am relying on my own very good immune system to deal with it should it happen. 20 months surrounded by young children and I haven't had Covid yet as far as I know. However, I don't like the insinuation that because I have not taken vaccine I am of low intelligence. I am well educated and will not be forced into making a doing somethingI don't believe in.

Good job we have magic staff then and for the record I am mightily in favour of the vaccine have had both AZ jabs and my booster coming up. I would implore anybody who can to have it. The biggest risk by far now is hugely understaffed care homes, morale dropping as the existing staff take up the shortfall probably leading to more staff leaving and hospital beds blocked as they have nowhere to discharge them to with the winter season upon us. Since the NHS staff have put off the date to spring I would like to know why care homes have been picked off.

Vax mandates and consequent acute staffing shortages in care homes will probably I would have thought lead to more death and misery than the risk of passing on covid from tested, PPE's staff would have.

@tealightsandd - I'm with you in our properly funded technocratic utopia and I have contempt for most anti-vaxxers particularly the militant shouty ones but that's not where we are at the moment, sadly.

@Tealightsandd

Refusing to take a life and health saving vaccine when working with the vulnerable is the very opposite of care.

Because it’s more life/health saving for the individual who has it than the people around them. They very clearly do care for their patients or they wouldn’t have worked throughout the pandemic without adequate ppe and when a vaccine wasn’t even available. Now many vulnerable patients are vaccinated themselves so are at lower risk than they were last year.

Guardian reporting that 50,000 staff might be leaving from an already acutely understaffed sector I can see a No 10 U-turn coming to bring it into line with NHS in April.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/11/england-care-home-workers-on-mandatory-covid-vaccines

@morticiamarkle fertility is the conception of an egg and sperm that depends on fertilisation and development into a blastocyst and then baby through subsequent pregnancy. Fertility depends on a myriad of factors including endometrial biome - shares of lactobacillus vs infection, endometrial lining, lining quality, lining depth and dimension (tri-layer is best), open Fallopian tubes, a good Antral follicle count, in range FSH , progesterone, estradial, prolactin and other hormones, egg quality, sperm quality, ovulation and so on.

There is absolutely no plausible mechanism by which a vaccine can permanently cause infertility.

As for birth rates of babies vaccinated there are multiple studies of babies born to vaccinated mothers who are perfectly healthy - look them up. There are also multiple and growing statistics on severe ill health of mothers who get covid while pregnant and impacts on babies ranging from low birth weight to still birth.

Anyone who is pregnant and unvaccinated is extremely foolish and taking a much greater risk than anyone pregnant and vaccinated.

Of course mumsnet is awash with but my period was delayed when I got the vaccine even though periods are not an indicator of fertility.

@morticiamarkle

Most of us like to see data. Can we see where you got yours from please?

@user1471543683

I'm not an anti vaxxer but I have not had any Covid vaccines. I am relying on my own very good immune system to deal with it should it happen. 20 months surrounded by young children and I haven't had Covid yet as far as I know. However, I don't like the insinuation that because I have not taken vaccine I am of low intelligence. I am well educated and will not be forced into making a doing somethingI don't believe in.

That’s fine your choice....but if you worked as a nurse or doctor for the NHS can you hand on heart say you would give up your job for your beliefs?

@user1471543683

I'm not an anti vaxxer but I have not had any Covid vaccines. I am relying on my own very good immune system to deal with it should it happen. 20 months surrounded by young children and I haven't had Covid yet as far as I know. However, I don't like the insinuation that because I have not taken vaccine I am of low intelligence. I am well educated and will not be forced into making a doing somethingI don't believe in.

You are relying on your own very good immune system? Good luck with that.

@arrowheart mot every one gets sick with Covid - in fact its thought that many many people are/have been asymptomatic.

I dont understand why people get so nasty towards people that have declined to have the vaccine when they themselves are most likely waiting for their third Jab.

How can unvaccinated people hurt you when you can fall seriously ill and die yourself if you have been vaccinated ?

@Kitkat151 I think the question should actually be -

'can you hand on heart you would give up your job for your belief over body autonomy?'

Because that's what it boils down to.The prospect of losing your job/home/career isn't a choice - its blackmail.

[quote PAFMO]@morticiamarkle

Most of us like to see data. Can we see where you got yours from please?[/quote]
The rat data? It is in the updated MHRA submission (think it was submitted early this year) but if you Google "Pfizer vaccine rat study fertility" you will find it on pubmed.

It was a 16pct loss vs 10pct in control. Knew I got 16pct from somewhere. It's not really relevant as it's v small study and not statistically significant.

@arrowheart

I was relying on my immune system and it's been just fine thanks. Didn't even get a fever. Loss of smell/phantom smell is annoying but it's coming back to normal. I'm back to doing 10 mile runs 3 weeks post positive test.

I know my own body.

I would say "good luck with your boosters & blood clots", but I'm not a massive asshole.