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Data, Stats, Daily Numbers started 22nd October 2021

999 replies

boys3 · 22/10/2021 22:22

This is the DATA thread.

Our preference is for factual, data driven and analytical contributions.

Please try to keep discussion focused on these.

The links below cover a range of data sources. Ideas for additions or deletions always welcome. PHE probably should be referenced at UKHSA.

UK govt press conferences slides & data www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences#history
PHE Variants of Concern Technical Briefings www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-novel-sars-cov-2-variant-variant-of-concern-20201201
PHE Vaccine efficacy www.gov.uk/government/publications/phe-monitoring-of-the-effectiveness-of-covid-19-vaccination
SAGE : Minutes and Models www.gov.uk/government/collections/scientific-evidence-supporting-the-government-response-to-coronavirus-covid-19
Data Dashboard coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ includes R estimates
PHE Weekly Flu & Covid Surveiilance Reports 2021-22 Season www.gov.uk/government/statistics/national-flu-and-covid-19-surveillance-reports-2021-to-2022-season
Dashboard Vaccine Map to MSOA level coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map/vaccinations
Covid 19 Genomics www.cogconsortium.uk/tools-analysis/public-data-analysis-2/
Sanger Genome Maps & Data covid19.sanger.ac.uk/lineages/raw
UCL Virus Watch ucl-virus-watch.net/
NHS Vaccination data www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/
Sewage www.gov.uk/government/publications/wastewater-testing-coverage-data-for-19-may-2021-emhp-programme/wastewater-testing-coverage-data-for-the-environmental-monitoring-for-health-protection-emhp-programme.
Sewage reports www.gov.uk/government/publications/monitoring-of-sars-cov-2-rna-in-england-wastewater-monthly-statistics-june-2021
Global vaccination data ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
R estimates UK & English regions www.gov.uk/guidance/the-r-number-in-the-uk
Imperial UK weekly LAs, cases / 100k, table, map, hotspots statistics imperialcollegelondon.github.io/covid19local/#map
NHS England Hospital activity www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-hospital-activity/
NHS England Daily deaths www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/
Cases Tracker England Local Government lginform.local.gov.uk/reports/view/lga-research/covid-19-case-tracker
ONS MSOA Map English deaths www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

Scot gov Daily data www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-data-for-scotland/
Scotland TravellingTabby LAs, care homes, hospitals, tests, t&t www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
PH Wales LAs, cases, tests, deaths Dashboard public.tableau.com/profile/public.health.wales.health.protection#!/vizhome/RapidCOVID-19virology-Public/Headlinesummary
ICNRC Intensive Care National Audit & Research reports www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports
NHS t&t England & UK testing Weekly stats www.gov.uk/government/collections/nhs-test-and-trace-statistics-england-weekly-reports
PHE Surveillance reports & LA Local Watchlist Maps by LSOA (from last summer) www.gov.uk/government/collections/nhs-test-and-trace-statistics-england-weekly-reports
ONS England infection surveillance report each Friday www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/previousReleases
Datasets for ONS surveillance reports www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/datasets/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveydata/2020
ONS Roundup deaths, infections & economic reports www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19roundup/2020-03-26
Zoe UK data covid.joinzoe.com/data#interactive-map
ECDC (European Centre for Disease Control rolling 14-day incidence EEA & UK www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

Worldometer UK page www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Our World in Data GB test positivity etc, DIY country graphs ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/united-kingdom?country=~GBR
FT DIY graphs compare deaths, cases, raw / million pop ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?areas=eur&areas=usa&areas=bra&areas=gbr&areas=cze&areas=hun&areasRegional=usny&areasRegional=usnj&areasRegional=usaz&areasRegional=usca&areasRegional=usnd&areasRegional=ussd&cumulative=0&logScale=0&per100K=1&startDate=2020-09-01&values=deaths

PHE local health data fingertips.phe.org.uk/profile/health-profiles
Alama Personal COVID risk assessment alama.org.uk/covid-19-medical-risk-assessment/
Local Mobility Reports for countries www.google.com/covid19/mobility/
UK Highstreet Tracker for cities & large towns Footfall, spend index, workers, visitors, economic recovery www.centreforcities.org/data/high-streets-recovery-tracker/

Our STUDIES Cornerwww.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3869571-Studies-corner?msgid=99913434

OP posts:
Thread gallery
142
Warhertisuff · 25/10/2021 21:47

@wintertravel1980

I guess it may be possible to temporarily go down to 5,000 cases per day if we achieve a so called HIT “overshoot” by accelerating boosters and infecting too many schoolchildren in autumn.

However the 5,000 level would be a blip (highly unlikely blip, in my personal non-science based opinion) and cases would go back up once vaccine and natural immunity starts waning.

Without modelling I'm not sure how you can reliably state that numbers can't be sustained below 5,000 cases per day. You may well be right, but it seems like your view is based on your gut feeling rather than anything more substantial.

Florida is interesting... Total deaths per population are higher than here, and it's fourth delta wave was its largest yet, both in terms of cases and deaths (the latter probably due to relatively low vaccination rates compared to the U.K. However, average daily cases have plummeted over the past month from 21,000 per day to around 2,000 per day now and still dropping, all with very few mitigations. Of course, the 2,000 may well rebound somewhat over time, but it does provide hope that endemic Covid won't necessarily have high case numbers.

Warhertisuff · 25/10/2021 21:48

@wintertravel1980

Apologies, you did make it clear that your post was a non-science based opinion.

wintertravel1980 · 25/10/2021 22:04

Here are a few unscientific back of the envelope calculations behind my thought process.

  1. Delta/Delta plus has got estimated R of 6 to 6.5. This implies herd immunity threshold of roughly 85% (1-1/6).
  2. 85% of 67 million is approximately 57 million. This is the number of people in the UK who will need to have some sort of immunity at any given point in time to prevent Covid from getting out of control.
  3. The big question is the speed of waning. If we assume people will get infected every 2 years (a big assumption), this will result in 78,000 daily infections (57 million divided by 730 days).
  4. Roughly 50% of the infections will eventually be asymptomatic (another assumption), so we might be seeing up to 40,000 Covid “cases” (from very mild to severe infections).

We can play with all the parameters but I do not see how we can reduce Covid cases to 5,000 in the long run.

Re: Florida - I think we are seeing a version of “overshoot” but it is only my personal opinion.

Chessie678 · 25/10/2021 22:29

My understanding is that around 10% of the population get flu on average each year but it can be up to 20% in a bad year (including asymptomatic cases). If 1m on average get flu each month that’s approx 33k cases per day, obviously not spread evenly throughout the year. It seems unlikely that there will end up being fewer covid cases than flu cases at least in the medium term and there could be many more.

I assume though that you might still get periods of low cases as waves peak and go down but that over time cases might be smoother so there are less extreme peaks and troughs.

I wonder if (and this is pure speculation) the fact that there has been such high exposure to covid in a relatively short period of time and that so many have been vaccinated in this period might give a temporary period of very low cases. If the assumption is that most children will have been infected by December, this might be a rationale for the 5k figure.

Warhertisuff · 25/10/2021 22:36

@wintertravel1980

Here are a few unscientific back of the envelope calculations behind my thought process.
  1. Delta/Delta plus has got estimated R of 6 to 6.5. This implies herd immunity threshold of roughly 85% (1-1/6).
  2. 85% of 67 million is approximately 57 million. This is the number of people in the UK who will need to have some sort of immunity at any given point in time to prevent Covid from getting out of control.
  3. The big question is the speed of waning. If we assume people will get infected every 2 years (a big assumption), this will result in 78,000 daily infections (57 million divided by 730 days).
  4. Roughly 50% of the infections will eventually be asymptomatic (another assumption), so we might be seeing up to 40,000 Covid “cases” (from very mild to severe infections).

We can play with all the parameters but I do not see how we can reduce Covid cases to 5,000 in the long run.

Re: Florida - I think we are seeing a version of “overshoot” but it is only my personal opinion.

Interesting analysis, thank you... and more scientific than you give yourself credit for.

Based on this, I think you have a point... Accepting 40,000 daily infections as normal forever would be one hell of a thing for some of society, and some countries to accept. The next few years will be interesting; especially in China where it all began.

Lelivre · 25/10/2021 23:31

@wintertravel1980 where does vaccination fit into those numbers? If vaccines are effective and kept up to date? Surely high numbers currently are linked to unvaccinated youth and their relatives whose vaccines protection has waned, coupled with other factors such as transmissibility of current variant and viral load due removal of restrictions and other seasonal factors (more indoor mixing). If vaccines are kept up to date and opened up (to younger children) that would change the likelihood of reinfection.

Oldgoat2021 · 25/10/2021 23:47

@wintertravel1980

Here are a few unscientific back of the envelope calculations behind my thought process.
  1. Delta/Delta plus has got estimated R of 6 to 6.5. This implies herd immunity threshold of roughly 85% (1-1/6).
  2. 85% of 67 million is approximately 57 million. This is the number of people in the UK who will need to have some sort of immunity at any given point in time to prevent Covid from getting out of control.
  3. The big question is the speed of waning. If we assume people will get infected every 2 years (a big assumption), this will result in 78,000 daily infections (57 million divided by 730 days).
  4. Roughly 50% of the infections will eventually be asymptomatic (another assumption), so we might be seeing up to 40,000 Covid “cases” (from very mild to severe infections).

We can play with all the parameters but I do not see how we can reduce Covid cases to 5,000 in the long run.

Re: Florida - I think we are seeing a version of “overshoot” but it is only my personal opinion.

Prof Balloux guestimated that at the level of endemicity each person would be infected once every 9 years and would be ill for around 2.5 days. That sounds more palatable to me!

mobile.twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1450758279093751814

MarshaBradyo · 26/10/2021 07:43

I appreciate anyone who takes time to show workings but 40k seems high given the numbers we have right now with high transmission through school age

JennyofLancashire · 26/10/2021 08:38

Being ill for 2.5 days is palatable but that ignores our current isolation rules. Is it palatable to isolate each household member for 10 days one after the other? If we reduce the isolation period (or compliance reduces) what will that do to the data?

herecomesthsun · 26/10/2021 09:06

@wintertravel1980

I am sure that Indie Sage members are “real” scientists but so is Carl Heneghan (who refused to believe in the second wave up until it hit and hit hard).

The problem with some scientists on both ends of the spectrum is that they become so attached and emotionally invested in their models and forecasts that they refuse to see facts and analyse real time data.

I still follow Christina Pagel on twitter since she is (i) clearly smart, (ii) one of the more reasonable members of Indie Sage and (iii) I like hearing diverse views. However it never stops to amaze me how often she misses very obvious data points because they do not seem to fit into her own version of the world. For instance, on July 19 she suggested that we tighten restrictions and go back to Stage 2 of the government roadmap. By that time, we could already see that we were passed the Euro peak and cases began to fall.

I do feel we are turning another corner this week (in fact, the greenshoots of hope were already visible last week) so again it is ironic that people started to call for restrictions now rather than 2 weeks ago, when cases unexpectedly jumped by 13-15% week on week. Back then I thought it was due to the “Bond effect” but in retrospect it could have been a one time shift driven by colder weather and increased socialisation indoors.

Let us see what happens to the numbers this week. There will be some half-term effect leading to decrease in testing but it will still be clear if cases are falling or rising.

My perception is that SAGE and Indie Sage are quite close in their opinions a lot of the time.

At the Conservative Party Conference, there was mention that the official scientific advisors had advised against Freedom Day as well.

Also, they were in broad agreement, it transpired, over the idea of a September circuitbreaker last year. And over the need to act in January this year.

Indie Sage at times have publicly expressed opinions about which SAGE still had to keep quiet, for reasons of political diplomacy. The individual members don't entirely agree, but as has been said, their is an overlap of membership.

Prof Heneghan seems to be a bit more extreme in the covid-minimising direction.

It is good however that Russell Viner is now speaking out in favour of 12-15s getting vaccinated.

Regarding predictions for case numbers in the medium to long term, that's very speculative. The impact does really depend on how much serious illness and death is caused and how quickly that (hopefully) diminishes; so many other factors are in play, like the cumulative effect of repeated vaccinations/ infections and the possible emergence of other variants.

Itisasecret · 26/10/2021 10:17

FWIW the testing problem is still happening in the SW. + LTF, symptoms, Covid in the household negative drive PCR, eventual positive. Therefore any data still isn’t accurate. The testing issue is wider than they’ve admitted because it’s ongoing. Thankfully it’s half term.

Tuba437 · 26/10/2021 10:25

@JennyofLancashire

Being ill for 2.5 days is palatable but that ignores our current isolation rules. Is it palatable to isolate each household member for 10 days one after the other? If we reduce the isolation period (or compliance reduces) what will that do to the data?
I highly doubt we Will still be isolating with covid this time next year. Testing will most likely dissappear over the next couple of years too so it's unlikely we will actually know the figures apart from those in hospital
JanglyBeads · 26/10/2021 12:05

Really @Itisasecret? Is that being reported anywhere or just what you’re hearing locally?

Itisasecret · 26/10/2021 12:08

@JanglyBeads

Really *@Itisasecret*? Is that being reported anywhere or just what you’re hearing locally?
It’s happening locally. 3rd case in my social circle this week. Her child is now incredibly poorly. Not before letting him mix at people’s houses to give her a rest as she has Covid…
Regulus · 26/10/2021 12:56

@JanglyBeads

Really *@Itisasecret*? Is that being reported anywhere or just what you’re hearing locally?
Also reporting locally here, and like secret people with positive LFTs buy negative PCR are trusting the PCR and not isolating.
cacheton · 26/10/2021 13:08

Hi. Just found this thread - how refreshing to see a conversation just about data.
I looked at the links at the top of the thread but couldn't find data on vaccination status of people admitted to hospital. Someone posted a link to hospital admission/treatment data on another thread

www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/77ca6dcc-5633-ec11-9137-00505601089b

but I can't see any vaccination status data in it. Does anyone know where I can find this? Thanks!

sirfredfredgeorge · 26/10/2021 15:30

In the under-18 group, the reproductive number R was 1.18

I don't get this, how is it so low, what mitigations were in place in under 18's that should get it this low, if in person isolation alone reduces it this much?

Bizawit · 26/10/2021 16:10

@Oldgoat2021

The difference in rates at the moment between London and elsewhere is quite bizarre.

In my inner London ward, vaccination rates are 57.6% with two doses. Case rate to 20th Oct is just 102.8 per 100,000.

I have family in Bedfordshire. Where they are, 76.8% have two doses. Yet the rate is 676.1 per 100,000!

Case rate here is just 85 per 100k and just 50% double vaxed 😱
Tuba437 · 26/10/2021 16:43

First time week on week cases are declining today. When was the last time we saw this?

sirfredfredgeorge · 26/10/2021 17:41

In England, just over 3 weeks ago - it's a graph (lagged!) on the dashboard.

MarshaBradyo · 26/10/2021 18:23

I’ve appreciated the views of Andrew Pollard a few times now

‘Covid testing in places such as schools to find asymptomatic cases should stop, the head of the Oxford Vaccine Group has suggested.

Professor Sir Andrew Pollard told MPs on the Commons Science and Technology Committee that it was “absolutely critical we keep children in school”, adding the biggest impact of the pandemic had been the psychological effect of being forced to stay home.’

www.thenational.scot/news/national/19673268.testing-pupils-without-covid-symptoms-stop-vaccine-creator-suggests/

herecomesthsun · 26/10/2021 18:48

@sirfredfredgeorge

In the under-18 group, the reproductive number R was 1.18

I don't get this, how is it so low, what mitigations were in place in under 18's that should get it this low, if in person isolation alone reduces it this much?

There aren't really many mitigations in place in the under 18s.

I think the study only went up to September 27th, so it missed the rapid growth over the last month and isn't a good reflection of the current situation in under 18s.

React and ONS both missed sampling the December 2020 peak as well, for logistical reasons. It's a shame.

Notmulan · 26/10/2021 19:03

Seeing similar confusion in my area which is east of England . Positive lft negative pcr. I hope this isn’t what it causing the current decline . I’d like it to be genuine

wintertravel1980 · 26/10/2021 19:08

…so it missed the rapid growth over the last month and isn't a good reflection of the current situation in under 18s…

In fact, most of the rapid growth in cases in under 18s largely happened prior to September 27 (as per the light blue line in the attached graph). Some regions and local authorities (e.g. SW) lagged behind but at a nation level the growth over past few weeks was not just driven by children.

What we have seen recently must’ve been more than just school related spread. I initially thought it was the “Bond effect” but a more plausible hypothesis is that it was the result of weather change and increase in indoor socialisation across all age groups.

Data, Stats, Daily Numbers started 22nd October 2021