How many covid deaths per month is too many?

[PrincessNutNuts]

3000? 4000? 5000? 6000?

At what point would you begin to be uncomfortable with the body count caused by the government policy colloquially known as "living" with covid?

Boris Johnson has been reported as saying that unless 50,000 are going to die he's not changing course.

This number can be expressed as about 238 dead British people every day from September - March inclusive, or 137 deaths per day over a year. Or 416 per day from November - February inclusive.

Is another 50,000 on the covid death toll ok with you?

Or not?

flower11 comfortably takes the gold for whataboutery

Not at all. Why are we only asking this question of covid?

The numbers are clearly causing some concern now because this thread is full of the usual suspects, myself included. For some 100k deaths would be acceptable as long as they could still keep the blinkers on with their heads in the sand.

Me though, I’ve resigned myself to sitting by watching this slow motion train wreck we call ‘Living with Covid’ unfold as the colder days start taking their toll. There’s potential things may get very rough soon, will BJ hold his nerve that is the big question.

The last few days I’ve noticed more people wearing face masks and my local city centre was very quiet today even for a Monday, so perhaps people are hopefully starting to look at the numbers and naturally taking a cautious approach.

There also appears to be a few ‘concerned’ comments from government sources in the press recently which again could indicate a shift in expectation as to how this will play out in the next few months…

Maybe we accept that (on average) we will probably live slightly shorter lives due to covid but we could try and make those lives more fulfilling.

Of course, some people will die younger of covid just as some will die younger of cancer etc.

Perhaps we've had a good run and now it's time to accept shorter life expectancy (on average). I say this as someone who has many clients relatives die before their time. But of cancer, not covid.

I can't give you figures.

Before covid, did some people just not realise that death happens? Because that's what it feels like.

There are loads of mitigations that the government could implement to save lives. They need to tackle obesity, climate change, pollution, the main causes of cancer etc. Some of the mitigations needed to actually cause a significant reduction in the number of deaths caused by these life threatening problems would be inconvenient to many and would be seen as taking too much control over the population, which is why the government don't bother. But, according to some, covid is more important than anything else so it's absolutely fine for the government to just restrict our lives forever

taking too much control over the population, which is why the government don't bother

Where the fuck have you been for the last 19 months................oh and FYI what you mention..............they are all nudges. Once you know this word and have seen it for yourself you cant unsee it.

There also appears to be a few ‘concerned’ comments from government sources in the press recently which again could indicate a shift in expectation as to how this will play out in the next few months

nudge nudge nudge

@Shelovesamystery Cool so if they shut the gyms again i take it you will be protesting in London.

This country has been gaslit into thinking there are two options: horrendously high covid rates (the UK currently represents 20% of new daily covid cases) or lockdown.

"And to answer the original question, am I fine with people dying of Covid? No. Am I willing to accept that for normality to resume, some people will die? Yes, if the alternative is lockdown hokey pokey forevermore."

Look at Spain, France, italy, Germany etc. Their rates are a fraction of ours. They are not playing 'lockdown hokey pokey'. They are having perfectly nice lives with some basic mitigations and a better vaccination strategy.

@Shelovesamystery Covid in itself is usually mild for most people especially those who are vaccinated against it. The issues therefore arise from having huge numbers of infected people simply because it is left unmitigated.

Education is disrupted, work is disrupted, NHS wait lists are disrupted, long term health prospects are affected, vaccine longevity is unknown, effects of multiple infections is unknown. Each of those issues then has a plethora of other sub issues attached to them and so on.

The virus is the tip of the iceberg albeit a large tip, it’s what comes with it that we should be worried about and not take a cavalier attitude in trying to reason our situation. Winter is coming.

We need to get on with it
If you don't want to do that then are free to stay at home

@MercyBooth

taking too much control over the population, which is why the government don't bother

Where the fuck have you been for the last 19 months................oh and FYI what you mention..............they are all nudges. Once you know this word and have seen it for yourself you cant unsee it.

I've certainly seen them introduce drastic measures to reduce covid deaths but I haven't seen anything even close to as drastic to reduce deaths from any other cause. Which is the point I'm trying to make. Why is banning people from seeing their own familes to reduce covid deaths absolutely fine but banning junk food to reduce obesity deaths is unthinkable? Why are covid deaths the only deaths that matter?

Username checks out.

@PickAChew

Username checks out.

Is that about me? What point are you trying to make?

[quote MercyBooth]@Shelovesamystery Cool so if they shut the gyms again i take it you will be protesting in London.[/quote]
If I have childcare and can afford the train fare, hell yes!

@Thewiseoneincognito

The numbers are clearly causing some concern now because this thread is full of the usual suspects, myself included. For some 100k deaths would be acceptable as long as they could still keep the blinkers on with their heads in the sand.

Me though, I’ve resigned myself to sitting by watching this slow motion train wreck we call ‘Living with Covid’ unfold as the colder days start taking their toll. There’s potential things may get very rough soon, will BJ hold his nerve that is the big question.

The last few days I’ve noticed more people wearing face masks and my local city centre was very quiet today even for a Monday, so perhaps people are hopefully starting to look at the numbers and naturally taking a cautious approach.

There also appears to be a few ‘concerned’ comments from government sources in the press recently which again could indicate a shift in expectation as to how this will play out in the next few months…

Or maybe with costs increasing people aren't shopping as much and with recent fuel crisis are more cautious about driving as much as they used to.

I've been wearing my mask alot more past 5 days because on the rare occasion I had to go out to get food or medicine i put my mask on cos I have viral tonsillitis so not looking to pass that on.

So maybe more masks are because a cold virus is going around.

Its not all covid related.

@Dreamstate

I'd say somewhere around the flu numbers is sensible something like 30,000. if covid is more risk in death compared to flu then perhaps 25,000 or just below it to take that into account.

It is what it is and people die of many other illnesses are similar figures and we so not shut down the country for them so 🤷

The weekly deaths we have right now equate to 40 to 50,000 a year before we’re even in winter.

Some of the comments and off the head stats on this thread depress me a bit. Talking about people with all conditions like numbers.

No need to compare to NZ, look at Europe.

Making everything else normal but mandating masks in crowded indoor spaces would reduce spread and severity. People seem to forget the studies that showed mask wearing cuts the viral load at exposure - yes some Covid may get through but it’s a smaller amount and leads to less severe outcomes on infection.

www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-91338-5

Now with a vaccine I’m not sure why the worry op?’

@Sunshinegirl82

My dad died from sepsis, one of the 50,000 per year who do so. Lots of those deaths are preventable but our lives do not revolve around preventing deaths from sepsis and nor should they in my view. There is more to life than not being dead.

I’m really sorry about your dad. I wanted to respectfully point out that sepsis is not contagious and those 50,000 deaths can’t exponentially increase if left unchecked. That’s why you see different strategies not because people don’t care. When the nhs is overwhelmed by something like Covid and other problems currently, that sadly leads to more deaths from other illnesses.

Whilst we can't stop covid and have to accept multiple infections going forward and probably shorter lives it is a scheme that we have squandered the advantages of the initial vaccine rollout.

Many countries are now far ahead of us in the proportion of people jabbed. Hell even New Zealand have more people with one jab than we do.

We know from Israel that you can have cases rising due to vaccine waning and yet our booster program is glacially slow. As a consequence we have sustained covid hospitalisations of hundreds a day and people stuck in ambulances for hours and hours.

It might be that Europe's cases will begin to rise in a few months as their vaccine rollout was more recent. I still recall Patrick Vallance said 20k would be a good result but now we are apparently happy with much higher numbers every year going forward.

No particular number, so long as they're easily preventible with vaccination. Those who are high risk are free to choose whether to get the vaccine, and if they choose to roll the dice on getting covid, it's well-known by now that some will die as a result. That's sad, but it's not a reason to stop the rest of us from just getting on with it.

@Shelovesamystery

Is that about me? What point are you trying to make?

I think it was about the OP, PrincessNutNuts.

#wearamask trending on Twitter.

Couldn't agree more @PrincessNutNuts and not enough people are saying this. How are we accepting of all these deaths? Our European neighbors have kept a few restrictions in place and the deaths down. Why wouldn't you wear masks if you can save lives!? what the actual fuck is wrong with everyone, I don't get it -- but I'm (clearly very) foreign.

A year on and fuck all has changed. Well saving the NHS is something i was doing before it was fashionable. I pay £13 a fortnight for Nexium Control because Zantac which was discontinued. I also buy my Mini Pill OTC. I have to budget to do this. Because appointments round here are like gold dust. So im not forking out for any more fucking masks.