Why aren’t the 3 main symptoms being updated?

[mariebaby3]

Dd has a really anxious week in school last week because lots of kids in her class are going in unwell but untested as they don’t have one of the 3 main symptoms. Either that or they’re using lateral flows which are inaccurate when symptomatic.

As a precaution and to ease her worries I’ve been doing frequent lateral flows on her (she has no symptoms) and she tested positive on Monday which has been confirmed via PCR. She’s completely asymptomatic so glad I did it but absolutely gutted that she has to miss 10 days off school.

Why aren’t the government updating these outdated symptoms? The Zoe website has probably the most accurate information but not everyone refers to it. I understand that testing when it could just be a cold is a pain but I’d much rather do that personally, than have it spread to so many other kids as it has in my daughters year.

The gov are pushing herd immunity so they need people/children to catch it. They couldn’t cope with the logistics or the financial cost of testing everyone with a running nose.

Unfortunately testing everyone with the symptoms of a cold is simply unfeasible throughout cold season, unless you shower households with LFTs and at-home (postal) PCR test kits - and even then many people wouldn't bother, especially with children.

I agree though that more could be done to educate people on the changing list of likely symptoms, esp. with Delta. ZOE has some really good info and a blog on this ('Do I have Covid or a Cold?'), but I doubt many can be bothered to read what is on ZOE.

Because then they would need a symptomatic test - which is a PCR. The PCR testing capacity in this country is already struggling and couldn't cope with every cold being tested.
There are still many colds and other respiratory viruses around, plus stomach bugs. It really isn't all undiagnosed Covid.

Why did I think they recently had expanded the list of symptoms for eligibility for PCRs? Maybe I made that up in my head.

I don’t know whether updating the symptoms list for PCRs would make much difference anyway unless school/workplaces also then compelled more testing (which I suppose they might, but it would be even more disruptive in terms of staffing etc, my nursery-aged children have back to back runny noses all autumn and winter, as do we as a result - my husband is a secondary teacher). Because I expect that the people who are concerned about the more extensive list of symptoms are already testing (LFT and PCR, even if they have to lie to get one), and those who are doing it for the three main symptoms only will just continue to do that out of practicality

Can understand a lot of this, I guess my frustration lies with my situation in particular as the 3 friends on question were all quite unwell, came in for anything between 1-3 days, subsequently sent home by the school and then tested positive. By then my dd had already caught it.

It’s such a difficult situation but for kids who are clearly quite unwell, bad headaches, sore throat surely if not tested just keep them home until it passes? These kids have gone in, been sent home anyway so missing school anyway, had tests anyway and infected others in the meantime. I get it, money, capacity etc. it’s just frustrating and imo even just stating that there are other symptoms that could be covid would help parents make a more educated decision as to whether or not to test.

I also think they need to make it more clear that the purpose of lateral flows are to detect asymptomatic carriers. Another one of dds friends went to school last week with a hacking cough as her mum did a lateral flow which came back negative. Sent home within hours from the school and ended up with a positive pcr.

It’s so difficult for everyone atm. In a weird way though I feel relieved to start getting it out of the way. It did feel inevitable in the end that we’d get it shortly after the term starting!

Nobody checks your symptoms.. you can just say you have symptoms and get a PCR.

They are nowhere near testing capacity, that’s a load of crap. Almost 100% availability and results within 12 hours where I am.

I think children being sent to school when quite unwell (as in, they should be resting at home to recover, not that they should necessarily be isolating) is a different issue. Whether they then have positive PCRs is a separate problem.

They are not even contacting close contacts to encourage them to take a PCR so they sure as fuck don't want more people taking one. It's a shambles.

@FTEngineerM

Nobody checks your symptoms.. you can just say you have symptoms and get a PCR.

They are nowhere near testing capacity, that’s a load of crap. Almost 100% availability and results within 12 hours where I am.

If you could guarantee 12 hours here (and you can’t) then that would be one thing. It’s still disruptive if you are talking about a child who is well enough for school and doesn’t have the three main covid symptoms

The government wants covid to be over. It's like a massive gift to them that the symptoms have changed over time and some people now get cold-like or gastro symptoms instead of losing their taste and smell and developing a cough. If lots of symptoms were included then there'd be huge disruption again (remember "pindemic" and staff shortages etc.) at a time when there is already huge disruption thanks to Brexit.

And there isn't enough support for people to continue isolating and taking time off work, so lots wouldn't want to test anyway for milder symptoms.

Because the gov are quite happy for it to spread now that many people have been vaccinated. Its unfortunate that we don't have all the information yet with regards to how much risk this strategy is to everyone's help longterm including children who are largely unvaccinated.

Health not help

I'm waiting for Johnson to hold a press conference with banners and balloons to tell us covid is over, because that's the way they're acting. The fact that many NHS hospitals are working at capacity and we're not even in winter, that chemotherapy treatments are being cancelled because they're so understaffed, seems to have completely passed them by. That, or they just don't care.

Because the Government don't care about children and their parents/carers.

DS2 got Covid last year at school and DS1 just caught it at school and gave it to me (double vaccinated).

One of the most common symptoms in children is no symptoms at all. I reckon the children at my DS’s nursery all have runny noses around 2/3 of the time. I doubt the ones with runny noses are any more likely to have covid than the ones without. And in a context where most of the viruses DS has had have been worse than covid I can’t see the logic of continuing to try to identify whether he has covid or some other horrible virus. If I actually had to get a PCR test every time he had any symptom which might be a covid symptom (which is basically any symptom at all) I’d need to give up work.

Dd has a really anxious week in school last week because lots of kids in her class are going in unwell but untested as they don’t have one of the 3 main symptoms. Either that or they’re using lateral flows which are inaccurate when symptomatic.

In other words, they most likely have something other than Covid?

The main symptoms now are runny nose, headache, sore throat not the previous 3 main symptoms of cough, fever, loss of taste/smell.

@thedancingbear

Dd has a really anxious week in school last week because lots of kids in her class are going in unwell but untested as they don’t have one of the 3 main symptoms. Either that or they’re using lateral flows which are inaccurate when symptomatic.

In other words, they most likely have something other than Covid?

Not necessarily? 3 of them were in my DDs form and have all had positive tests yet still went in to school. Hence how my daughter caught it.

Sorry to clarify, they went into school unwell and since then have had positive tests!!

Not necessarily? 3 of them were in my DDs form and have all had positive tests yet still went in to school. Hence how my daughter caught it.

Not necessarily, but most likely not. Most of us have at least one cough or sniffle each autumn/winter. The presumption in the OP that these are probably covid cases, even though the symptoms are very general/don't necessarily match, is wrong-headed. it's going to be like this forever now, I suppose, but it is wearing.

@SMBH I agree, even with the main symptoms it’s off putting. I’ve just had to test two of my children who were coughing, both were otherwise well enough for school, but have missed two days. I could get a PCR appointment straight away, but the result took 29 hours to come back. It would be hugely disruptive if every child with a runny nose had to miss two days of school each time to get tested

@Fallagain

The gov are pushing herd immunity so they need people/children to catch it. They couldn’t cope with the logistics or the financial cost of testing everyone with a running nose.

This ^

Although herd immunity is likely impossible as neither the vaccine nor infection give sterilising immunity and immunity wanes so the herd immunity threshold is probably too high to be attainable or sustainable.

I think what the government is aiming for is to get to the stage of COVID becoming endemic so the number of cases is relatively stable, either constant or with small waves, rather than the huge waves we have had.

It wasn’t a presumption, as I know for a fact at least 3 of them had covid (not including the one who went in with a cough as this is a widely known symptom). Yes some of them may have just had colds but that’s not my point.

I understand that other illnesses still exist and I don’t assume that every case of the sniffles is covid. I do think that it should be communicated
more clearly that it’s presenting itself differently than it did last year so parents can be more vigilant. I also think that it shouldn’t be so restricted on the website when booking a test. If a parent is concerned enough to start the process of trying to book one they shouldn’t be shut down just because ‘they aren’t eligible to test’ because they don’t have 3 of the main symptoms when they aren’t the ones that are common at the moment.

I had a letter from our school saying if it’s a cough, fever, taste/smell loss don’t come in. If it’s a snuffly nose, sore throat its unlikely to be covid and the child should come in. I personally think it’s the wrong message to be putting out as it’s factually incorrect.

@mariebaby3 if I didn't leave the house every time I had a sniffly nose I would never leave the house! (I'm allergic to dsds cat we took in!)

It's autumn, bugs are about, you can't test for every cold

@Fallagain

The gov are pushing herd immunity so they need people/children to catch it. They couldn’t cope with the logistics or the financial cost of testing everyone with a running nose.

Yeah this covers it

They want people to get it now rather than later into winter/when vaccines have worn off

They want minimal disruption to schools/work so would rather people get it but don’t know they have it

They can’t cope with huge numbers of tests at once

…therefore they have not updated the symptoms

I don’t necessarily disagree tbh but wish they’d be honest about the strategy